Shows
Macro N CheeseEp 336 - MMT101 with Jim Byrne**You’re invited to join us Tuesday evening for Macro ‘n Chill, an online gathering where we can listen to and talk about this episode. Tuesday July 15, 8pm ET/5 pm PT Click here to registerThis week we're releasing an interview Steve did as a guest of Jim Byrne, host of MMT101 podcast. Steve and Jim have much in common, so it’s interesting to hear how their approaches differ. In part, this is related to the conditions of their nationalities. Jim, in Scotland, isn’t faced with the myth of political democracy. They have a...2025-07-1257 min
Macro N CheeseEp 327 - Isolation with Bill MitchellAs difficult as it is to get a handle on the chaos and confusion of Trump’s shifting policies, we continue to ask wise friends for their perspective. This week Steve is speaking with Australian economist Bill Mitchell, a founder of MMT and a regular guest of this podcast. Bill helps us unpack the capitalist contradictions driving global instability. Steve asks if we should be looking at Trump’s actions as a continuation of the neoliberal trajectory as described in Bill’s book, Reclaiming the State. Bill replies that he doesn't even see it as a natural extens...2025-05-1055 min
Macro N CheeseEp 321 - Modern Money with L. Randall WraySteve’s guest is noted economist L. Randall Wray, one of the early developers of modern money theory. As many times as this podcast has talked about MMT, it’s always topical. In fact, just last week, Elon Musk discovered 14 magic money computers in government agencies! So, Trump had to hire the richest man in the world who hired who knows how many hundreds of young tech kids to discover what we've been saying for 30 years, which is that Congress appropriates money, and then the computers keystroke it into people's accounts. There's no mystery about this a...2025-03-291h 12
Macro N CheeseEp 319 - DOGE Ball: A True Oligarch Story with Yeva NersisyanNear the start of this episode, Yeva Nersisyan talks with Steve about leftist economists who are still wedded to the belief that government spending relies on taxpayer money. She says if an academic on the left uses the ‘taxpayer dollar’ framing, then you cannot be surprised when the right uses it too – to say they’re saving taxpayer money, cutting wastefulness, cutting inefficiency. It’s why being consistent is so important. If one side can use it, the other side can too.“It leads to the Elon Musks of the world using this taxpayer money trope to basically ta...2025-03-151h 16
Macro N CheeseEp 318 - The Death of the Left? with Simon Winlow & Steve HallIf you ever find yourself asking “What’s left?” you’re in good company. Today’s left is often indistinguishable from neoliberal centrism. Steve’s guests are Simon Winlow and Steve Hall, authors of the book, The Death of the Left: Why We Must Begin from the Beginning Again. They talk about the historical shifts that have led to ideological collapse, disconnection from the working class and the embrace of individualism over collective action.The conversation emphasizes the urgent need for a revival of working-class politics that transcend identity divisions and focus on collective struggles against economic ne...2025-03-081h 00
Macro N CheeseEp 317 - Fatal Distraction with Shealeigh VoitlControl of information is a vital weapon of the ruling class in its war on the people. Critical media literacy is more important now than it has ever been. For the past year we’ve been drowning in imbalanced coverage of the war on Gaza. (How many times did mainstream news outlets use the word ‘genocide’?) It’s just one example – and it’s an outrage. Steve’s guest is Shealeigh Voitl, Project Censored’s digital and print editor. They discuss the media’s role in shaping public perception and delve into the systemic disinformation propagated by corporate and academi...2025-03-0158 min
Macro N CheeseEp 311 - The Electoral Delusion with Jen PerelmanRunning for office is a fool’s errand if you think you can win and radically change the system from within. But an election campaign can serve other purposes for political organizers. A campaign provides a platform, a megaphone... media attention. The process of campaigning puts you in touch with people in the community. As Steve puts it, an election allows you to “build coalitions and radicalize people.” Jen Perelman’s need to run against Debbie Wasserman Schultz was clear: “I knew that we weren't going to win, but we made significant strides in what my bigger mission is...2025-01-181h 01
Macro N CheeseEp 310 - The Inevitability of Luigi Mangione with Jordan CharitonWhen there’s an attack on a high profile (read: white) target in the US, media attention is aimed at the perpetrators. If the act was politically motivated, that fact is either used to explain their psychopathy or dismissed altogether. The December shooting death of a UnitedHealthcare CEO has had a different reaction. As soon as the news broke, public sympathy was drawn to the shooter. The American people have too many horror stories about being denied medical coverage. Jordan Chariton, of Status Coup News, joins Steve to look at the significance of this story as representation of p...2025-01-1158 min
Macro N CheeseEp 307 - Rights for Machines? AI's Ethical Future with James BoyleCan you imagine granting personhood to AI entities? Well, some of us couldn’t imagine granting personhood to corporations. And yet... look how that panned out.In this episode, Steve talks with Duke law professor James Boyle about his new book, The Line: AI and the Future of Personhood. James explains the development of his interest in the topic; it began with the idea of empathy. (Then) moved to the idea of AI as the analogy to corporate personhood. And then the final thing – and maybe the most interesting one to me – is how encounters wi...2024-12-1452 min
Call Me LimboCall Me Modern Monetary Theory with Steve GrumbineDai and David kick off season five with an extra special guest! Steve Grumbine is a Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) Evangelist and serves as the CEO & President of Real Progressives and Real Progress in Action. Steve also hosts Macro N Cheese, a podcast that critically examines the working class struggle through the lens of MMT. Dai, David, and Steve discuss MMT, the role of taxation, the Democratic Party, inflation and deflation, retirement funding, universal basic services, war bonds, and much much more.The 401k Experiment: A Looming Retirement CrisisCoup Save MMT with Sean St. Hea...2024-11-1550 min
Macro N CheeseEp 299 - Coup Save MMT with Sean St. Heart**Our Substack brings every new episode of this podcast as well timely alerts about our book clubs and webinars and reminders for Tuesday night’s gatherings of Macro ‘n Chill. All this and more, straight to your inbox. Subscribe now: realprogressives.substack.com Recently, Steve appeared with host Sean St. Heart on Coup Save America, a weekly podcast committed to breaking through political rhetoric and focusing our attention on the core problems affecting our nation. The episode’s title was Exploring Modern Monetary Theory with Steve Grumbine, but of course it’s almost impossible to limit an MMT conve...2024-10-191h 08
Macro N CheeseEp 298 - YIMBYism is Code for Gentrification with David FieldsIf NIMBY is the classist rejection of affordable housing ("Not in my back yard”), then YIMBY is sold as the progressive counter to it: “Yes, in my back yard; because I believe affordable housing should be widely available, even in my own neighborhood.” But of course, housing development has nothing to do with the needs of the poor or the working class. It has nothing to do with the public purpose. Steve’s guest, political economist David Fields, explains: “YIMBY is yes to housing in my backyard, but housing for developers to extract profit from land value. So b...2024-10-121h 04
Macro N CheeseEp 297 - Exposing the Titans of Capital with Peter PhillipsThe titans of capital aren’t just the obscenely wealthy. They are the directors of transnational finance companies; they manage the money of the obscenely wealthy.Steve’s guest, political sociologist Peter Phillips, is the author of Titans of Capital: How Concentrated Wealth Threatens Humanity. The titans, he says, have doubled their AUM (assets under management) in the past 5 years.“There's only 117 of them and they manage $50 trillion of capital. That $50 trillion is the core –– almost half of the free-floating capital in the world. And that is what the US calls a vital interest. So, when the US say...2024-10-0548 min
Coup Save AmericaExploring Modern Monetary Theory with Steve Grumbine“Are Progressives like 8-bit robots walking into walls when it comes to understanding economics?” Sean’s Monologue: Kamala Harris & Healthcare Today we welcome special guest Steve Grumbine, founder and CEO of the nonprofits Real Progressives and Real Progress in Action. Steve is here to tell us how Modern Monetary Theory could benefit the working class American – and why it doesn’t. If you think a podcast on economics will be dry and dull, you’ve never heard Steve’s animated and passionate viewpoints on the subject. Steve and Sean start the episode by reflecting upon the most recent presidential debate, then Steve laun...2024-10-011h 30
Coup Save AmericaExploring Modern Monetary Theory with Steve Grumbine“Are Progressives like 8-bit robots walking into walls when it comes to understanding economics?”
Sean’s Monologue: Kamala Harris & Healthcare
Today we welcome special guest Steve Grumbine, founder and CEO of the nonprofits Real Progressives and Real Progress in Action. Steve is here to tell us how Modern Monetary Theory could benefit the working class American – and why it doesn’t. If you think a podcast on economics will be dry and dull, you’ve never heard Steve’s animated and passionate viewpoints on the subject.
Steve and Sean start the episode by reflecting upon...2024-10-011h 30
Macro N CheeseEp 292 - The Conflict of Class, Democracy & Universal Basic Services with Tony from 1DimeMacro N Cheese brings you another twist. A couple of months ago, Steve appeared as a guest on 1Dime Radio in a two-part series that we’re now presenting as a single episode. Tony has been on our podcast several times, now Steve is on his turf. The result is a productive meeting of the minds. He and Steve both view the world through a Marxist lens, and they both agree Marxists need MMT. The discussion goes into the American Revolution as they consider the possibility of democracy in a modern capitalist system. They examine bourgeois cont...2024-08-311h 45
1Dime RadioThe Limits of Reformism (Ft. Steve Grumbine)Support the show and get access to the Part 2 early on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/OneDime
In this episode of the 1Dime Radio podcast, I am joined by Steve Grumbine, founder of the RealProgressives non-profit and host of the Macro N Cheese podcast, a podcast focused on Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) and left history. In this episode, we discuss the problems with modern Social Democracy and the Democratic Socialist movement (embodied in the DSA in America) and why social democrats and proponents of MMT would benefit from learning Marxist theory and a class analysis of politics...2024-06-141h 02
Macro N CheeseEp 279 - Seeking Solidarity with Steve Hall**Each episode of Macro N Cheese has an “Extras” section filled with information and links to resources related to topics touched on in the interview. Go to https://realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast/ where you will also find a full transcript of the episode. Steve Grumbine’s guest is Steve Hall, a Professor Emeritus of Criminology who has published in the fields of criminology, sociology, anthropology, history, economic history, political theory and philosophy. The discussion covers a range of political and economic issues, including class consciousness and unity among the working class in the US and Europe. They dis...2024-06-011h 15
Macro N CheeseEp 274 - Is Bail Reform the Answer? with Jeff ClaytonWhen most of us think about bail, we focus on the financial burden it presents to the accused. This week’s guest is Jeffrey J. Clayton, Executive Director of the American Bail Coalition. He talks to Steve about the complicated anti-democratic trap that is our criminal justice system.Jeff explains that across the US there are plans in place to eliminate bail. (One would think that’s good news. One would be wrong.) In reality, these plans result in greater violations of civil liberties. Bail is being replaced by pre-trial incarceration and risk assessment tools using computer algo...2024-04-2743 min
Macro N CheeseEp 269 - Finding Your Why with Steve GrumbineThis episode of Macro N Cheese is dedicated to Steve’s mom, Joan Grumbine. Her kindness, love, and unwavering dedication to her family and community will be deeply missed. May she rest in peace.In his first solo episode, our host and jefe, Steve Grumbine, recounts the story of his political transformation from conservative republican to passionate MMT advocate, to self-identified socialist.He begins the episode talking about his recent experience dealing with the medical system as his mother’s health declined. Both parents’ deaths illustrate the fact that a for-profit system cannot...2024-03-231h 17
Macro N CheeseEp 265 - Is Marx Still Relevant? with Steve Maher**To discuss this episode among friends, come to our listening party, Macro ‘n Chill, on Tuesday February 27th at 8pm ET/5pm PT. For the link go to our Events Calendar https://realprogressives.org/rp-events-calendar“But fortunately for us, human nature is precisely the capacity to be creative; to imagine a different way of living together and to bring that into being through our conscious and deliberate actions by working together, by fighting for a different world against the class power that is interested in perpetuating things as they are. And so we can, through acting on the worl...2024-02-2454 min
Macro N CheeseEp 258 - Wall Street’s War on Workers with Les LeopoldBefore the 1980s, mass layoffs were often tied to economic recessions. Today, they are shrewd corporate strategy. Modern mass layoffs are connected to leveraged buyouts or stock buybacks. Steve’s guest, Les Leopold, explains how the process works and how it came to be through the maneuverings of Wall Street and the two political parties.Les is the author of Wall Street’s War on Workers. He and Steve talk about the very real impact on people’s lives, from the coal miners of Mingo County, West Virginia, to Steve’s personal struggles after Verizon’s 2009 lay-offs. They discu...2024-01-0652 min
Macro N CheeseEp 257 - The Case For Palestine with Dan KovalikIn his third appearance on Macro N Cheese, Dan Kovalik talks with Steve about his upcoming book, The Case for Palestine: Why It Matters and Why You Should Care. As with many of our guests, the episode is more of a conversation – a passionate one – than an interview.“First of all ... this conflict did not begin on October 7th, though we're led to believe it did. This conflict – well, it depends on when you want to say it started – but certainly a good starting place is 1948 in the Nakba, when 700,000 to 900,000 Palestinians were violently displaced by Israelis who came in to...2023-12-3045 min
Status Coup PodcastCan UAW Strike Be GAMECHANGER for the Left? How U.S. is STARVING Africa - w/ Steve GrumbineWith the UAW strike looking very likely to happen this week, Steve Grumbine hosts discussing if this could be the game changer the 'left' needed? Also the U.S. IMF is targeting Africa with Starvation and more. Jordan will be ON-THE-GROUND in Detroit and elsewhere covering the UAW strike: SUPPORT Status Coup's ON-THE-GROUND and investigative reporting on the stories the corporate media COVERS UP: https://www.StatusCoup.com/Join
Steve Grumbine: @sdgrumbine on Twitter | Real Progress in Action on Youtube | https://www.realprogressives.org
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Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/statuscoup/support2023-09-1348 min
Varn VlogPolitics, Power, and Economics: A Deep Dive with Steve GrumbineEver wondered why modern monetary theorists have been alarmingly silent on the debt ceiling controversy? Or why Democrats, who traditionally champion labor causes, seem to have neglected critical issues like the Supreme Court and the potential for a Federal Reserve Bank-induced recession? These are the pressing questions we tackle in our riveting discussion with the insightful Steve Grumbine, founder of Real Progressives and host of Macro and Cheese.This episode is nothing short of a deep dive into the complex interplay of politics, power, and economics. We scrutinize the disturbing trend of weaponizing issues like student debt...2023-08-311h 24Status Coup PodcastAOC WARNS Cornel West Risks Trump Victory, NY Times Biden Bootlicking-w/ Steve GrumbineAOC now warns that Cornel West 'risks' Trump victory, rather than looking inward at her own party's failings. Jordan Chariton is joined by Steve Grumbine to discuss this shameful rhetoric, as well as the New York Times continuing its Biden bootlicking and more. SUPPORT Status Coup's ON-THE-GROUND and investigative reporting on the stories the corporate media COVERS UP: https://www.StatusCoup.com/Join
Steve Grumbine: @sdgrumbine on Twitter | Real Progress in Action on Youtube | https://www.realprogressives.org
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Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/statuscoup/support2023-08-021h 29
Macro N CheeseEp 228 - Full Employment with Pavlina TchernevaWhen economist Pavlina Tcherneva was last on this podcast, we were a few months into the pandemic. She and Steve talked about nationalizing payroll and the heightened need for a federal job guarantee during a time of crisis.In this episode, the neoliberal approach to unemployment comes under scrutiny. Pavlina explains the inadequacy of official unemployment data. She looks at the problem from several angles, including geography, demographics, and of course, economics.Pavlina and Steve discuss MMT, the politics of NAIRU, and the debt ceiling. They look at a job guarantee as...2023-06-1058 min
JENerational ChangeWGA Strike Panel: Sean Astin, Frances Fisher & Joely Fisher; Debt Ceiling w/ Steve GrumbineWe'll be speaking with Steve Grumbine of The Real Progressives about the Debt Ceiling and the not-so-good deal President Biden made with Speaker McCarthy. But first, we'll be speaking with leading members of SAG-AFTRA on the current status of the WGA Strike.
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☀️ FACEBOOK: @Jen Perelman
Streamed live on May 29, 2023.
2023-06-022h 13
Macro N CheeseEp 223 - Messaging For Mainstream with Bijou SmithNew Zealander Bijou Smith is a longtime friend of Steve and the podcast. His story, in brief: “I was a physicist. I love physics, theoretical physics, but when I learned a bit about economics—I was always interested in economics from a sort of dynamical systems analysis perspective. It's kind of interesting mathematics. Even the neoclassical stuff is interesting for a little while until you realize it's a joke. But then when I heard about MMT, a lot of the pieces clicked into placed and it's like, wow, this is really the struggle.” MMT is a bell that can’t be unr...2023-05-0657 minJENerational ChangeSteve Grumbine: Your Taxes Do NOT Pay For Social SecurityWe'll be speaking with friend of the show, Steve Grumbine of The Real Progressives, about the truth surrounding Social Security & much more. We'll also be speaking with Maebe A. Girl, running for U.S. Congress in CA-30 to replace the departing Adam Schiff!
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☀️ FACEBOOK: @Jen Perelman
Streamed live on Mar 6, 2023.
2023-03-122h 16
Macro N CheeseSurfing the Wayback Machine: 2017 with Fadhel KaboubDr. Fadhel Kaboub was recently appointed Under-Secretary-General for Financing for Development of the Organisation of Educational Cooperation (OEC), an international intergovernmental organisation founded by countries from across the Global South. In honor of Fadhel’s new position, we’re releasing Steve’s very first interview with him from back in the day when we live streamed onto Facebook. Steve thinks his questions are very different today — more disciplined. Some of us can’t get over how young he sounded. It was only five years ago!Fadhel and Steve discuss the spectrum of monetary sovereignty from full sovereignty to complet...2023-03-041h 07
Macro N CheeseEp 210 - American Exception with Aaron GoodIf Macro N Cheese wasn’t committed to spreading MMT to the activist community, we might have been a history podcast. Nothing excites Steve Grumbine as much as listening to 50 hours of lectures on the French Revolution or the Black Plague. This week’s guest, Aaron Good, checks a lot of our boxes. What he brings to the table is history with a solid class analysis.Aaron is the author of American Exception: Empire and the Deep State. American exception should not be confused with American exceptionalism; think instead of the concept of laws applying to everyone EXCE...2023-02-041h 00
Status Coup PodcastThe Real War is Against the Poor, How Austerity is Murder w/ Steve GrumbineThe real war is against the poor. Steve Grumbine explains the reality behind saying 'Austerity is Murder', why there is more to just punching up,and what to do with that information.
Steve Grumbine: @sdgrumbine on Twitter | Real Progress In Action on Youtube | https://www.realprogressives.org
SUPPORT Status Coup's ON-THE-GROUND and investigative reporting on the stories the corporate media COVERS UP: https://www.StatusCoup.com/Join
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Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/statuscoup/support2023-01-0817 minJENerational ChangeThe Omnibus Bill w/ Steve GrumbineStreamed live on Dec 26, 2022.
We'll be speaking with Steve Grumbine of The Real Progressives and The Macro & Cheese Podcast about the corporate-friendly spending bill as we close out 2022.
Check out our Patreon for more!
☀️ patreon.com/JENerationalChange
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☀️ FACEBOOK: @Jen Perelman
2022-12-301h 35
Macro N CheeseJapan: A Case Study in MMT with Bill Mitchell**After the episode, visit our “Extras” page where you’ll find links to Bill Mitchell’s blog, books, MMT education course, and more. Every episode of this podcast is also accompanied by a full transcript. realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast/**Usually when Steve and his guests talk about culture, they’re referring to that of neoliberalism. As Scott Ferguson says, neoliberalism isn’t just enmeshed in our popular and esthetic culture; it is our culture. “There’s no enmeshing; it IS neoliberalism—what in the Marxist tradition we call etiology, the kind of background assumptions and values that structure our innermost thou...2022-12-171h 07
Macro N CheeseSystem Dynamics and the Minsky Model with Tyrone Keynes** Check out the transcript for this and every episode of Macro N Cheese on the Real Progressives website. This week’s episode looks at using a recently developed economic model application developed by frequent Macro N Cheese guest, Steve Keen. The software is aptly named “Minsky” and Steve Grumbine’s guest, Tyrone Keynes, is an experienced user of the Minsky software modelling tool. Tyrone is a consultant whose specialties are economics, health, and ecological modelling systems. Steve and Tyrone walk through the steps to develop processes that they both similarly follow to build a...2022-12-0357 min
Macro N CheeseEp 200 - Africa's Place in the Multi-Polar Order with Fadhel Kaboub**Thank you to our listeners! Can you believe this is our 200th episode? Crazy, right? Well, it wouldn’t have been possible without the efforts of a dedicated team. Our sound editor and engineer, Andy Kennedy, has spent thousands of hours (literally) producing these weekly gems. Then there’s the diligent band of copy editors—Brad Sandler, Jonathan Kadmon, Jay Spencer, and yours truly, Virginia Cotts, (plus, in earlier days, Rose Ann Rabiola Miele and Rob Baxter)—who pore over every AI-generated transcript, correcting mistakes and fixing punctuation for clarity. Julie Alberding, the RP website’s reigning eminence, created the layout...2022-11-261h 02
Macro N CheeseThe Trinity of Austerity with Clara Mattei“Austerity is the best weapon they have to try to convince. And if they can't convince, they can't coerce. So in my book, I say austerity plays with a double strategy: coercion and consensus.”Clara Mattei is the author of The Capital Order: How Economists Invented Austerity & Paved the Way to Fascism, published this month. Steve Grumbine, who uses the Twitter display name “Austerity is murder,” was drawn to her position that austerity is not just bad economic theory prescribing bad economic policy. That is a simplistic framing that ultimately depoliticizes austerity.Many on the left tie the birt...2022-11-121h 10
Macro N CheeseTrussonomics with Neil Wilson** Check out the transcript for this and every episode of Macro N Cheese at the Real Progressives website.Grumbine: I follow a lot of Brits on Twitter, and not just regular rank and file activists, but a lot of the actual economists. And the folks that are considered left, very strongly remind me of neoliberals.Wilson: Because they are. [laughter] What we have, you see, is this wonderful thing called the Oxford degree in philosophy, politics and economics [PPE]. And what happens is, when they graduate from that, there's a Sorting Hat, and it just puts them in...2022-10-2249 minJENerational ChangeSPECIAL GUESTS: Odessa Kelly & Steve GrumbineStreamed live on Oct 5, 2022.
Odessa Kelly, candidate for U.S. Congress in TN-07, will join us to discuss the status of her campaign with one month to go! But first, we'll be joined by friend of the show, Steve Grumbine of Real Progressives, to discuss the blatant dishonesty of the Biden Administration regarding Student Debt Cancellation in the face of the GOP-led lawsuit.
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2022-10-181h 44
Macro N CheesePakistan in Crisis with Aqdas Afzal** To donate to the flood relief effort in Pakistan, please visit the Prime Minister’s Flood Relief Fund 2022How do we unpack a problem like this year’s floods in Pakistan? Where do we place the blame? Steve invited our friend Aqdas Afzal back on the podcast to discuss his recent article, “Collapse of Civilizations.”The article’s title is a cheeky play on Samuel Huntington’s “Clash of Civilizations,” which predicted massive conflict between the world’s non-white, non-Christian peoples and the global North. Coincidentally, the countries of the global North have profited quit...2022-10-1559 min
Macro N CheeseEp 191 - Can We Make Money Work For Us? with L. Randall WrayGrumbine: Can we have too much money? Wray: Yes, we surely can. Usually, our problem is that there's too much bank money, and the usual consequence is a financial crisis. Obviously, Steve and his guest are talking about the nation, not their own wallets. In this episode, he welcomes L. Randall Wray to Macro N Cheese for the eighth time to talk about Randy’s new book, "Making Money Work for Us: How MMT Can Save America," which will be released in America in November. Our listeners know they can co...2022-09-241h 20
The Moneyless Society PodcastWTF is Money with Steve GrumbineIn this bombastic episode we go deep into MODERN MONETARY THEORY with Steve Grumbine, founder of Real Progressives and Host of Macro and Cheese, exploring how money is made up, how it's used and misused, what taxes are actually for, debunking the murderous lies of WHO'S GONNA PAY FOR IT and digging into two very close but very different theories on this crazy thing we call MONEY and what to do about it.
This episode is a great, tough conversation that got heated, was full of laughs and heartfelt connections, showing that we can agree t...2022-09-171h 33
Macro N CheeseImports, Exports and Empire with Bill MitchellIn a recent episode of Macro N Cheese, Steve spoke with a guest about the MMT view of exports as a benefit and imports as a cost. There ensued some disagreement on social media (where else?) This week Steve invited Bill Mitchell to weigh in on the topic. As their discussion develops, this becomes an episode we’d recommend to anyone who is still unclear on the meaning and consequences of foreign trade deficits.“Exports have to be a cost because you're foregoing real resources that you could use yourself. And imports have to be a benefit because you...2022-07-301h 21
Macro N CheeseThe End of Dollar Diplomacy? with Steve Keen and Michael Hudson**A transcript is available for this and every episode of the podcast at realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast/ where you will also find an Extras page with links to resources related to the episode.**In one of the most exciting pairings we’ve had on this podcast, Michael Hudson and Steve Keen join Steve Grumbine to talk about geopolitics, international production and trade, the climate crisis, and a bit of MMT.Grumbine begins by asking them to address Warren Mosler’s position that imports are a benefit and exports are a cost. Keen and Huds...2022-07-0953 min
Macro N CheeseEp 177 - Economic Superorganism with Carey KingThis episode of Macro N Cheese introduces us to Dr. Carey King of the University of Texas at Austin where he performs research and modeling of energy systems interaction with the economy past, present and future. He has published a book, The Economic Superorganism describing his research extrapolating the results into policy suggestions.Steve opens the episode describing the term “real resources” and asks Dr. King to explain the approach he took in his book. The explanation reaches back into history to the 14th century all the way to the present. Through that time span, he discovered that...2022-06-1859 min
Macro N CheeseInflation: The Fed's Crash Landing with L. Randall WrayReal Progressives and Macro N Cheese are committed to bringing MMT to activists and folks with no background in economics. Many of us were only interested in learning how MMT disrupts the concept of taxes funding federal programs, but the more we know, the more we want to understand. MMT is funny that way.If you’re new to MMT, this week’s interview with L. Randall Wray might appear to be wonky and intimidating. But we urge you to listen and promise it will be worth it. We’ve had a few episodes dealing with inflation in rec...2022-05-2159 min
Macro N CheesePakistan's False Dawn and the Beginning of History with Aqdas AfzalA false dawn is a promising situation which comes to nothing. This is how Aqdas Afzal describes the situation in his native Pakistan and India at the end of the Raj.“The point to remember here, Steve, is that the British were in India not to govern. They were in India to extract surplus and to maintain what they called law and order. And so the British left without giving the local people any taste or mechanism for bringing about accountability or democracy. But they did leave behind these two very, almost draconian institutions for keeping law and or...2022-05-1454 min
Parallax Views w/ J.G. MichaelFight Like Hell: The Untold History of American Labor/Labor Struggle, MMT, and Resisting the ”Doom Pill” w/ Steve Grumbine
On this edition of Parallax Views, former black metal journalist turned labor reporter "Grim" Kim Kelly joined me to discuss her new book Fight Like Hell: The Untold History of American Labor. We discuss the book, the role of women in the labor struggle from the beginning, how Kim got involved in labor organizing and unions, the neglected voices of labor history, and much, much more (including Kim's favorite black metal band). Then, in the second half, "The Rogue Scholar" Steve Grumbine, founder of Real Progressives and host of the Macro N Cheese podcast, joins me f...2022-05-051h 45
Macro N CheeseInvesting in Sustainability with Paul Herman** If you haven’t checked out the transcripts and extra resources for all 166 episodes of Macro N Cheese, what are you waiting for? Go to realprogressives.org/macro-n-cheese-podcast **Steve opens this episode with the MMT observation of the government’s ability to purchase anything for sale in US dollars if the real sources are available – and if we have the political will. When it comes to getting things done, this is of fundamental importance. Steve's guest, Paul Herman, agrees and looks beyond the government:“...because we have five crises of our time, and those cr...2022-04-0258 min
Macro N CheeseEverything You Heard About China is Wrong with Vincent HuangWhat do you know about modern China? Is it capitalist? Socialist? What do those terms mean in today’s global economies? According to Steve’s guest Vincent Huang, China considers itself “a socialist market economy with Chinese characteristics.” In this episode, Vincent tells Steve how this socialist market economy plays out in Chinese society, and how it compares to the world we know in the US – and just about everywhere else. There’s a stark difference in the power wielded by corporations, for example. In China...The state is the representative, it's the agent that mediates the conflicts between the...2022-02-051h 09
Status Coup PodcastSchumer Invokes REAGAN to Gaslight You on Economy, Can Mark Cuban Save Your Life?-w/ Steve GrumbineSteve Grumbine's Youtube channel, Real Progress in Action: https://www.youtube.com/c/RealProgressInAction
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Macro N CheeseFoundations with Warren Mosler**Have you seen the Rogue Scholar, Steve Grumbine’s new brown bag lunch show on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays at noon EST? For interviews, commentary, and, of course, MMT, go to Real Progress in Action on YouTube.Newcomers to MMT tend to draw a blank when they are told that taxes drive the currency or taxes created the first unemployed person. After all, none of that seems to track with the way they personally experience taxes. Warren Mosler makes sense of it by starting with the money story, using the example of colonial currency. The British wanted wo...2022-01-2954 minStatus Coup PodcastThere's More to Russia Ukraine, ThedaCare Nurses WIN, Biden's Gilded Age - w/ Steve GrumbineSteve Grumbine's Youtube channel, Real Progress in Action: https://www.youtube.com/c/RealProgressInAction
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Macro N CheeseEp 156 - Doughnuts with Steven HailMacro N Cheese devotes considerable attention to ecological economics and environmental justice. We’re always working to expand our understanding of both. Dr. Hail connects the dots between environmental sustainability and the broader public purpose. It’s a focus of his new podcast, “Modern Money Doughnut”.But that's done best of all in Kate's book, when she talks about the doughnut, when she talks about moving away from growthism, from pursuing the growth of GDP as though that is an end in itself, and towards identifying those things which ought to be true of a successful society that provides...2022-01-221h 05Status Coup PodcastPaul Begala Blames Voters for Dem Failures, Billionaires $5 Trillion Richer - With Steve GrumbineSubscribe to Steve Grumbine on Real Progress in Action on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/RealProgressInActio
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Macro N CheeseSustainability: The New Economics with Stephen Williams and Phil LawnStephen Williams and Philip Lawn join Steve to discuss the forthcoming book, Sustainability and the New Economics: Synthesising Ecological Economics and Modern Monetary Theory, which Williams co-edited. The book brings together sustainability, ecological economics, and MMT.As you learn more and more about this thing called sustainability, you realize that it's really the economic system that is at the heart of the problem. It's the economic system you have to change. So when you start studying what we usually call heterodox economics, you soon start to learn about something called ecological economics, which Phil is an expert in...2022-01-0855 min
Macro N CheeseEp 151 - Can Blockchain Help the Left? with The Blockchain SocialistThe Blockchain Socialist wants to dispel the notion that blockchain technology can only serve a right-wing libertarian agenda. In this week’s episode, he tells Steve the left loses out when new trends or innovations are introduced into the economy. Blockchain is a neutral tool on which we can build different types of organizations and institutions. He speaks of the risks taken when groups use Google Docs for organizing their information. Google’s removal of access to Palestinian activists should be seen as a threat to the left.The Blockchain Socialist – let's call him TBS – created his blog and...2021-12-1848 min
Macro N CheeseStorming the Ivory Tower with Davarian BaldwinDo you think of colleges and universities as protected islands of intellectual activity, ivory towers where the world’s problems are contemplated and debated? Steve Grumbine’s guest is here to tell us otherwise. Davarian Baldwin, of Trinity College, is an urban historian and social theorist, whose work examines the landscape of global cities through the lens of the African Diasporic experience. His most recent book is In the Shadow of the Ivory Tower: How Universities are Plundering Our Cities.Baldwin describes how institutions of higher education are the largest employers, healthcare providers, and landlords in cities and town...2021-12-0459 min
Macro N CheeseParticipatory Economics with Michael AlbertMichael Albert is one of the creators of participatory economics (parecon) and has developed a vision for a post-capitalist world that includes participatory governance. His new book, No Bosses, A New Economy for a Better World, goes into detail. From Noam Chomsky’s endorsement:*No Bosses* describes and advocates a natural and built Commons, workers’ and consumers’ self-managing councils, a division of labor that balances empowering tasks among all workers, a norm that apportions income for duration, intensity, and onerousness of socially valued labor, and finally not markets or central planning, but instead participatory planning by workers and consum...2021-11-2759 min
Macro N CheeseThe Fall of Evergrande with Robert HockettSomber headlines recall the 2008 financial crisis: “Global financial markets have been on high alert,” warns the BBC. “Chinese property giant Evergrande is on the brink of collapse, and analysts warn the potential fallout could have far-reaching implications that spill outside China’s borders,” says CNBC. From the New York Times: “Every once in a while a company grows so big and messy that governments fear what would happen to the broader economy if it were to fail.”To navigate this story, we needed someone immune to hysteria, so Steve invited the infinitely sensible Robert Hockett to guide us through the Ev...2021-11-0653 min
Macro N CheeseEp 143 - Whither the Next Rebellion with Jamie SkillenIn 2014, Nevada cattle rancher Cliven Bundy and his supporters engaged in armed confrontation with law enforcement. Bundy had been embroiled in a 21-year legal dispute with the US Bureau of Land Management. The “Bundy Standoff” was splashed across the news, allowing the public to watch as Cliven Bundy became a hero – a symbol of conservative America under attack by the federal government.This week, Jamie Skillen talks with Steve Grumbine about the history and politics of federal lands. Skillen’s book, This Land is My Land, traces three periods of rebellion against federal land authority over the past for...2021-10-2351 min
Reset RaceReset Race Podcast 036: Reparations is the answer and here is how we pay for it! #MMT w/ Steve GrumbineWe talk to Steve Grumbine of Real Progressives about Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) and how it frees us to provide Reparations to US Freedmen.
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Macro N CheeseThe New Liberals with Steve Keen & Victor KlineThis week we’re checking in with a couple of candidates from The New Liberals (TNL) of Australia. We’ll be learning about the traditional Australian political parties and getting an overview of how their electoral system works.Steve Keen is an old friend of this podcast. In the past he’s joined us to talk about everything from climate change to Marx to the breakdown of supply chains during the COVID pandemic. Now we’re meeting him as a political candidate; soon Professor Keen will be Senator Keen. Victor Kline, the leader and one of the founders of TNL...2021-10-0956 min
Macro N CheeseThe Lightbulb Moment with Malcolm ReavellMMT, at its most fundamental, shows us the difference between a currency user and the currency issuer. This reality affects policy decisions in ways it would be foolish to ignore. As Fadhel Kaboub and Bill Black explained here recently, even if it were possible to create some inadequate public programs at the state level, they will stall the progressive agenda.Malcolm Reavell of Modern Money Scotland talks to Steve about the parallel situation he and his compatriots are facing. Scotland’s annual budget is determined and controlled by Westminster, the Parliament of the UK.Every year th...2021-09-1853 min
Left at the Valley 2.0Modern Monetary Theory with Steve GrumbineSteve Grumbine joins the crew to discuss MMT (Modern Monetary Theory) its implications and overall economics. Steve is a founder of RealProgressives.org and the YouTube channel Real Progressives in action. Prepare your mind to be blownSabrina does a top 10 of strange wedding customsBenjamin talks about a Giant rubber duckand Brent Lee talks about Coach Dave thinking BLM gets way too much money and Christians are the real victims2021-09-061h 50
Macro N CheeseThe Flint Water Crisis with Jordan CharitonStatus Coup Media's co-founder and CEO Jordan Chariton joins Real Progressives’ founder and CEO Steve Grumbine for a discussion of our crumbling infrastructure, our inept and complicit corporate media monolith, and they share some ideas about our options going forward.This conversation seems like a perfectly segued culmination of Jordan’s recent RP Live presentation on the corporate media cover-up of issues like Flint’s notorious water crisis and climate change related issues as well as last week’s Macro N Cheese episode on infrastructure with Bob Hockett. As Jordan has repeatedly asserted, the infrastructure issues plaguing Flint, MI are p...2021-08-2855 min
Macro N CheeseInfrastructure with Robert HockettThis week Steve brings back Robert Hockett to help us understand the big “I” word - infrastructure.Our focus on particular infrastructure depends on the social or public goals we have in mind. If we are a society that values mobility, we will concern ourselves with transportation infrastructure. If this were the 19th or early 20th centuries, we would be prioritizing infrastructure that facilitates industrial productivity. There’s also such a thing as “soft infrastructure.”It's probably worth noting that a lot of public policy discussion these days seems to be about social productivity. Right? To what exten...2021-08-211h 20
Chatter#169 - Steve Grumbine on MMT, Tax, and a Federal Jobs GuaranteeSteven D. Grumbine was a conservative Republican who revered Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush. He was raised with the social belief that no one was deserving of a handout, that everyone must pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Steve’s mother and father had both finished their careers at Ma Bell, and Steve was on track to do the same, working with the company for 17 years. While working at Ma Bell, Steve continued his professional education, attaining master’s degrees in Technology Management (2007) and Business Administration (2008).
In 2009, despite his many years within the company, Steve was...2021-07-211h 02
Macro N CheeseEp 126 - An MMT Perspective: Interest Rates and Inflation with Warren MoslerReal Progressives is on a mission to bring Modern Monetary Theory to the layperson. We don’t assume you’ve studied economics, only that you’re open-minded and curious. Once the MMT light bulb goes on, it reveals a myriad of implications, making it a powerful tool for political activists and organizers. It’s almost impossible to think of a political agenda unaffected.Some Macro N Cheese episodes can be difficult for newcomers, but it’s worth sticking with us. All will be revealed!Steve’s guest this week is Warren Mosler, the man who...2021-06-261h 05
Macro N CheeseThe Race to the Bottom with Fadhel Kaboub and Bill BlackTo unpack the confusion around the push for state-based vs federal programs, it’s necessary to understand the race to the bottom. So this is where Steve Grumbine begins his interview with Bill Black and Fadhel Kaboub. The inequities among the Eurozone nations have their parallel in the US. At both the global and national levels, the race to the bottom affects labor standards, environmental regulations, tax rates, and basic services. To understand this, we always turn to the MMT explanation of the difference between a currency issuer and a currency user.The federal government can afford to pr...2021-06-121h 13
Macro N CheeseThe Case Against a Universal Basic Income with Bill MitchellProfessor Bill Mitchell was our very first guest on Macro N Cheese, and now here he is, 122 weeks later. Episode #1 was Putting the T in MMT. This week Steve asks him to discuss the single policy prescription at the core of MMT - the Federal Job Guarantee. The discussion goes into the parameters and nuance of the FJG and the pitfalls of a Universal Basic Income as a competing possibility.Bill asserts that implementing a UBI to deal with unemployment and poverty would be capitulating to the neoliberal claim that government is helpless in the face of unemployment...2021-05-2959 min
Macro N CheeseWhat Marx Got Wrong with Steve KeenSteve Keen can be counted on to bring a unique and controversial perspective. This time he turns his critical gaze toward what some feel is sacred in Marx’s legacy. The interview takes a dive into complex theory, which we won’t even attempt to summarize here.Keen says Marx’s philosophical thinking ultimately transcended his own labor theory of value which asserts that all surplus value derives solely from labor. In the Grundrisse, he acknowledges the role of machinery in the production process showing that, with its input into production, machinery can be a source of surplus value...2021-05-2254 min
Macro N CheeseEp 120 - Chain Reactions with Mike FigueredoMike Figueredo and Steve Grumbine have a lot in common. Both are on a journey toward radicalization. Both recognize the importance of MMT in this process. Steve was recently Mike’s guest on The Humanist Report in an episode that was part MMT primer and part discussion of their mutual anti-capitalist awakening. This week, Mike comes to us.When we activists and non-economists first learn MMT, we experience a chain reaction as one shibboleth after another is toppled. The insights strike us as both profound and profoundly obvious. Of course it can also be both exciting and de...2021-05-1559 min
Macro N CheeseEp 114 - When the Whistle Blows with Richard BowenSteve Grumbine welcomes the uncompromising and incorruptible Richard Bowen to the studio to discuss the intricate web of deception and fraud more commonly known as our private banking system. Having been at Citigroup during the mortgage crisis, he had an insider’s eye view of the stranglehold the large banks have on our country. The financial services industry is one of the largest contributors to political campaigns and there’s a revolving door between the regulatory agencies and the institutions they’re supposed to be regulating. He can only conclude that the banking lobby controls the government.In ear...2021-04-031h 07
Macro N CheeseEp 111 - Cancel This Podcast with Dan KovalikThis week Steve talks with Dan Kovalik, a labor and human rights lawyer, who recently wrote a book aptly titled Cancel This Book. The episode is more conversation than interview; Dan and Steve both have a lot to say about cancel culture.Dan tells the story of Molly Rush, an 85-year-old peace activist who once served time in jail for participating in a protest at a nuclear bombsite with the Berrigan brothers. Molly went on to help found the Thomas Merton Center in Pittsburgh, one of the oldest peace and justice centers in America. During the BLM...2021-03-1356 min
Macro N CheeseFocus on the Family with June CarboneRecently our friend Bill Black introduced us to June Carbone. He suggested she could tell us how the job guarantee fits into cutting edge research on the family. June holds the Robina Chair in Law, Science and Technology at the University of Minnesota Law School and writes about the intersection of family, the economy, and politics. In this episode, June takes Steve through the evolution of the American family as it transitioned to meet the economic needs of modern society. She says what excites her is not so much what things are, but why they change. When the U...2021-01-231h 08
Macro N CheeseEp 103 - Anatomy of a Job Guarantee with Fadhel KaboubWhat can we say about the job guarantee that hasn’t already been said? Quite a bit, actually, as you’ll see in this and upcoming episodes.This week Fadhel Kaboub is talking to a mellower Steve, fresh from the hospital and still on the mend from Covid19. Fadhel begins with the reality that capitalism is a brutal system that constantly leaves people behind. It’s driven by technological change, and as this develops, we require some workers with new skill sets, while others are rendered virtually obsolete. We don’t have an existing system bringing them into the...2021-01-1659 min