Shows
What’s the DEIL?How Bias Sneaks Into Workplaces (And What To Do About It)Bias happens everywhere, especially at work. And often, it shows up long before anyone realizes there’s a problem.In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie dig into how bias, particularly unconscious or implicit bias, quietly shapes the workplace experience. Whether it’s small assumptions about who takes notes in meetings, who gets certain assignments, or how people’s communication styles are perceived, these “little” moments can snowball into big workplace issues, complaints, and even legal risk.Here’s What You’ll Learn in This Episode:✔️ What bias really is (hint...
2025-09-2629 minWhat’s the DEIL?Why a Neutral, Trauma-Informed Investigator Can Save Your WorkplaceIn this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie explore the often-overlooked aspects of internal investigations, highlighting why a neutral, trauma-informed third party can significantly impact the process, particularly in cases involving workplace culture, conflict, or DEI concerns.Employee complaints are rarely as simple as they seem on the surface. Behind every formal investigation is often a tangled web of long-standing frustrations, cultural tensions, and unresolved bias. And yet, too many organizations fumble by either keeping investigations in-house when they shouldn’t or by bringing in external investigators who don’t have the skills or sens...
2025-09-0329 minWhat’s the DEIL?Culture Isn’t Just a Buzzword; It’s an Investigation TriggerIn this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie dig into the real reason culture can’t just live on your company’s “About Us” page.Yes, “culture” is often used as a feel-good concept. But when conflict erupts, or worse, formal complaints arise, what’s beneath the surface usually reveals a pattern, not a one-time issue. And that pattern? It’s shaped by culture.From favoritism to retaliation to unchecked leadership behaviors, the hosts explore how your day-to-day practices, or lack thereof, are either reinforcing accountability or brewing your next workplace investiga...
2025-08-0128 minWhat’s the DEIL?Leadership in the Middle: Coaching for Culture KeepersMiddle managers are the unsung heroes of the modern workplace. They’re the bridge between vision and execution, strategy and people, senior leadership and front-line teams. But they’re also the most overlooked when it comes to meaningful development and support. In this episode of What’s the DEIL? Shanté and Natalie delve into why middle managers are the culture keepers and why investing in them is crucial to an organization's health, retention, and long-term performance.From the unique challenges middle managers face to the pressure they absorb from both directions, we explore the importance of coaching, trainin...
2025-06-0318 minWhat’s the DEIL?Preventing Conflict Before It StartsPreventing Conflict Before It StartsConflict at work isn’t the enemy—avoiding it is.In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie tackle one of the most misunderstood dynamics in leadership and workplace culture: conflict. Not the explosive kind we all dread but the slow-simmering tension that starts with a side-eye in a Slack message or a disengaged team member and ends in resignation letters, HR investigations, or boardroom complaints.This conversation challenges the notion that all conflict is inherently bad and instead reframes it as inevitable and manageable if iden...
2025-06-0326 minWhat’s the DEIL?The Real ROI of Coaching-Centered LeadershipIn this episode of What’s the DEIL? Natalie and Shanté dive deep into the true power and misunderstood value of coaching in the workplace. Not performance management coaching. Not “fix your attitude or lose your job” coaching. We’re talking about real, development-focused, coaching-centered leadership that can transform your entire culture from the inside out.Too often, coaching is treated as an executive luxury or a last-ditch effort to salvage problematic leaders. But what if coaching wasn’t just for the C-suite or crisis? What if it was a foundational leadership tool applied across all levels of your org...
2025-05-2733 minWhat’s the DEIL?Audit the Work, Not Just the Words: When DEI is Optics-OnlyIn this episode of What’s the DEIL? Shanté and Natalie break down the difference between performative DEI and actual, lawful, impactful action. With anti-DEI rhetoric making headlines and fear running high across corporate America, this episode offers a practical, clear-eyed path forward for organizations who are feeling the pressure to “do something” but aren’t quite sure what.Rather than reacting to political panic or folding to fear-based headlines, the hosts advocate for a proactive approach: a comprehensive workplace audit to ensure your people practices are legally compliant, inclusive in reality (not just in branding), and truly ali...
2025-05-1329 minWhat’s the DEIL?Assessments Aren’t Optional. They’re a Leadership Discipline.In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Natalie and Shanté are pulling back the curtain on one of the most overlooked but essential tools in your leadership toolbox: the workplace culture assessment.Think employee engagement surveys are enough? Think again. The workplace and the world have shifted dramatically. What worked in 2019 won’t cut it in 2025. Your culture assessment can’t just be a box you check; it has to be a mirror reflecting your employees’ lived realities, otherwise, what’s the point?In this episode, we cover:What a workplace culture ass...
2025-05-0629 min
The Legal Lens Podcast174. How Employers Can Navigate the DEI Backlash: Insights from Attorney Natalie E. Norfus of The Norfus FirmIn this episode of The Legal Lens Podcast, host Angela Reddock-Wright is joined by Attorney Natalie E. Norfus, Founder of The Norfus Firm and a seasoned employment attorney and DEI strategist, for a deep dive into the current state of Diversity, Equity, Inclusion (DEI), and workplace culture in 2025.Natalie addresses the growing backlash against DEI programs in the workplace and beyond, why the true principles of equity and inclusion still matter, and how employers must reframe their strategies to avoid losing the trust of their workforce. She also explains the importance of focusing on leadership development, workplace...
2025-04-3034 minWhat’s the DEIL?Beyond Bubble Baths: Real Wellness Strategies for Real-World EmployeesIn this episode, Natalie and Shanté take a hard look at what wellness in the workplace really means in 2025. Spoiler: it’s not bubble baths, yoga sessions, or sporadic wellness emails. It’s about addressing the real stressors employees face daily and rethinking what effective workplace wellness looks like — beyond surface-level perks.Episode Highlights:Wellness Fatigue is Real: Employers rushed to implement wellness programs post-2020, but many initiatives felt like one-off tactics rather than part of a meaningful strategy. Yoga sessions and mobile barbers are great, but are they actually meeting employee needs? Natalie and Shanté...
2025-04-2919 minWhat’s the DEIL?Wellness Is More Than a Webinar: Lessons from 2020, Needs in 2025In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Natalie and Shanté unpack the evolution of workplace wellness — from the pandemic-fueled rush of 2020 to the complex realities of 2025. Spoiler alert: your occasional meditation webinar or EAP reminder isn’t cutting it.As the weight of today’s world presses harder — with unrelenting news cycles, social tensions, and workplace uncertainty — employees carry more than just their workloads. Natalie and Shanté share candid stories, real client examples, and hard-won insights into why “wellness” can no longer be an afterthought or a surface-level initiative.In this episode, they dive into:Why av...
2025-04-2326 min
Care More Be Better: A Podcast For Sustainable Social Impact and RegenerationAddressing The DEI Backlash With Natalie NorfusToday’s divisive society and political climate have been changing the concept of diversity, equity, and inclusion or DEI. Instead of bringing people together regardless of social status, age, belief, or skin color, it is slowly becoming a cuss word used to demean and hurt. HR/DEI practitioner Natalie Norfus utilizes her years of problem-solving experience to address this pushback that currently hurts growth, accessibility, and opportunity in every workplace. Joining Corinna Bellizzi, she explains how DEI, despite not having a one-size-fits-all model, is crucial in dismantling the white supremacy culture. Natalie also discusses how the lack of a cl...
2025-04-1657 minWhat’s the DEIL?Beyond ‘Keep It Professional’: How to Prepare for Charged Conversations at WorkJust keeping it professional doesn’t cut it anymore. In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Natalie Norfus and Shanté Gordon continue the conversation from their last episode, moving from the “why” to the “how” of handling unavoidable political and sensitive conversations in the workplace.Natalie and Shanté acknowledge the new reality: everything feels political in 2025. Issues of identity, safety, livelihood, and belonging have all become part of the workplace experience. Leaders and employers can no longer rely on outdated best practices like “no politics at work.” The truth? Conversations are happening whether you allow them or not.The...
2025-04-1531 minWhat’s the DEIL?The Politics of Silence: Why Avoidance Hurts Workplace CultureIn this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Natalie Norfus and Shanté Gordon get real about a topic many leaders and organizations are struggling to navigate in 2025: Is it even possible to keep politics out of the workplace anymore?Spoiler: No.But the conversation doesn’t stop there.As our co-hosts unpack the current climate—where headlines change by the hour and virtually every aspect of our identities feels politicized—they reflect on a major shift in perspective. Once firm believers that politics had no place at work, they now confront the unavoidable truth: Av...
2025-04-0826 minWhat’s the DEIL?What Resilience Means to UsIn this episode of What’s the DEIL, the Norfus Firm team gathers to tackle both the tactical and emotional realities of leading DEI work amid today’s shifting political climate. While news headlines create confusion and panic around the future of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in organizations, this conversation is a reminder that mission-driven work doesn’t stop because the landscape gets bumpy.Here’s a closer look at how the TNF team is staying resilient, steady, and strategic as they navigate a volatile moment in time.Reflections on Resilience: More Than a BuzzwordAt...
2025-03-1842 min
A More Perfect Union with Nii-QuartelaiThe Intersection of Social Work and DEI: Views from Leaders on the FrontlinesDr. Nii-Quartelai is joined by National Association of Social Workers CEO Dr. Anthony Estreet, along with Labor and Employment Attorney Natalie E. Norfus of "The Norfus Firm." Together they talk about state of the social work and DEI profession in the Trump Era, emerging impacts, and what we should focus on beyond the headlines. Download the KBLA app to listen live and subscribe to "A More Perfect Union" podcast powered by KBLA Talk 1580 to never miss an episode. Calling all leaders, learners, and listeners - We've got a lot to talk about!
2025-03-1141 minWhat’s the DEIL?From Alphabet Soup to Authenticity: Rethinking Inclusion in DEIThis episode zeroes in on the overuse of buzzwords in DEI, particularly focusing on “inclusion.” Shante and Natalie note how terms such as diversity, equity, and inclusion often get reduced to an “alphabet soup” that may lose meaning in translation.Why Inclusion ResonatesInclusion is highlighted as the most universally relatable aspect of DEI—everyone can connect with the idea of having a place where they belong. Unlike diversity or equity, which can trigger resistance due to misinterpretation or emotional bias, inclusion is seen as neutral and fundamentally human.Business Impact of InclusionThe h...
2025-03-1125 minWhat’s the DEIL?From Hysteria to Healing: Navigating DEI Rollbacks in Unprecedented TimesHosts Shante Gordon and Natalie Norfus kick off this episode by acknowledging the unprecedented challenges of the past five years—from the pandemic and natural disasters to political drama—and the resulting collective stress in the workplace.The DEI Rollback Debate:The conversation dives into the current hysteria around DEI rollbacks, urging listeners not to subscribe to panic or sensational headlines.The hosts stress that while headlines might suggest a dramatic reversal, the core principles of diversity, equity, and inclusion remain crucial for both ethical and business reasons.Using Data, Not Emotion:Emphasizing a shif...
2025-03-0433 minWhat’s the DEIL?Navigating DEI Hysteria and Centering HumanityIn this candid episode of What’s the DEIL? Shante and Natalie pull back the curtain on the whirlwind of headlines, hysteria, and heated debates surrounding Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI). With a fresh, homey setup that reflects both their laid-back vibe and commitment to authenticity, the duo explores how today’s DEI controversies often distract from the real work—caring for people in the workplace.Key Takeaways:Hysteria Is Natural, But Not Productive: The emotional response to DEI debates is understandable—but leaders must not let panic dictate their actions. Instead, focus on...
2025-02-2527 minWhat’s the DEIL?Exploring the LEAD Framework for Workplace Culture LeadersIn this final part of a four-episode series, Natalie and Shanté close the loop on navigating confusing headlines and shifting sentiments about Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI). They present the LEAD framework—four clear steps to guide leaders in creating inclusive workplaces, even amid legal challenges, market pressures, and internal uncertainty.Episode HighlightsDEI Is Not Dead—It’s Evolving: A quick recap of why seemingly contradictory announcements about “rolling back DEI” don’t actually mean an end to inclusive leadership practices. The importance of long-term thinking instead of scrambling for quick fixes.Introducing t...
2025-02-1832 minWhat’s the DEIL?Don't Play in People's Faces: Hidden Costs and Impact of DEIIn this third segment of a four-part series, Natalie and Shanté shine a spotlight on how fluctuating commitments to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) truly affect the people at work. From a heartbreaking quote about a promotion “forced by DEI” to managers who don’t realize how alienating their comments can be, the hosts break down what these missteps cost organizations—both financially and in employee trust.Episode HighlightsDEI Confusion on the Ground: Real-world stories of employees who feel undermined and questioned because of DEI “hype” or “backlash” and the ripple effect of a manager telling a...
2025-02-1128 minWhat’s the DEIL?We Shouldn’t Have to Say This (Again): The Business Case for DEI in 2025In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, hosts Natalie and Shanté cut through the noise around Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI). Despite years of data proving that diverse, equitable, and inclusive workplaces outperform their peers, many organizations still question the need for DEI or treat it as a short-lived initiative. Natalie and Shanté revisit why DEI isn’t just a feel-good program—it’s a critical business strategy for survival, profitability, and innovation in 2025.Episode HighlightsThe Never-Ending “Why” of DEI: Why we still have to defend the business case in 2025, even though research (McKinsey, Morg...
2025-02-0428 minWhat’s the DEIL?Why DEI Still Matters in 2025In this episode of What’s the DEIL, hosts Natalie Norfus and Shanté Gordon dive into the complexities and challenges surrounding Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) in 2025. As the term continues to face resistance, mischaracterization, and even weaponization, they unpack why DEI remains essential and how organizations can navigate the current landscape.Key Discussion Points:Reflecting on 2024: Lessons learned from a challenging year and the importance of intentional rest and spaciousness as we step into 2025.The DEI Whiplash: Examining the conflicting narratives in the news—companies scaling back on DEI initiatives versus others doubl...
2025-01-2441 minWhat’s the DEIL?Beef At Work | Facilitating Conflict in the Workplace: A Trauma-Informed ApproachConflict in the workplace can be challenging, but a trauma-informed approach can make all the difference. In this episode, we dive into how understanding the impact of trauma can help in resolving conflicts, improving communication, and creating a safer, more supportive work environment for everyone. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-12-0326 minWhat’s the DEIL?Beef At Work | Workplace Wars: Mitigating Culture Clashes through Workplace Culture AssessmentsIn this episode, we explore how cultural differences can lead to workplace conflict and how conducting workplace culture assessments can help bridge the gap. Learn strategies for identifying and addressing clashes before they escalate into bigger issues, fostering a more harmonious, productive environment. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-11-1927 minWhat’s the DEIL?Beef At Work | Workplace Culture: Rise in conflicts among senior leadersIn this episode of What's The DEIL?, we dive into a growing challenge in the workplace: the rise of conflicts among senior leaders. As competition, high-stakes decision-making, and differing leadership styles escalate, conflicts at the top levels of organizations are becoming more common and complex. But what’s fueling these tensions, and how can organizations address them without compromising productivity or culture?Join us as we explore the root causes of senior leadership conflicts, the impact on workplace morale and organizational success, and strategies for fostering collaboration and effective conflict resolution. With insights from our DEI-focused ap...
2024-11-0532 min
Conversations on ConversationsA Conversation on Resourcing Yourself with Shanté GordonJoin Sarah Noll Wilson and guest Shanté Gordon as they explore the importance of proactive resourcing, community, and living with authenticity to prevent and navigate burnout.
About Our Guest
Shanté Gordon, a dynamic DEI Strategist, Executive Coach, and Trauma-Sensitive Wellness Facilitator & Yoga Teacher (RYT-500), boasts a rich, multi-disciplinary career spanning decades. Armed with an Industrial Engineering and Management Sciences degree from Northwestern University, she began in supply chain management, where she uncovered workplace disparities around gender, race, and privilege. Transitioning to marketing, Shanté climbed the ranks in iconic music labels, online retailers, and fitness brands, until burnout pro...
2024-10-1652 minWhat’s the DEIL?It's Lonely at the Top....Still ft. Amira Alvarez On the latest episode of What's The DEIL?, we had the honor of hosting Amira Alvarez for a powerful discussion on a critical topic: In 2024, senior women continue to be a largely underrepresented group in most organizations.When women rise to senior leadership, they often find themselves as “one of only” or one of very few in the room. This episode dives into how the scarcity of women at the top impacts those who reach these roles, and what organizations need to be mindful of when advancing women to senior leadership positions.Tune in t...
2024-10-0836 minWhat’s the DEIL?Beef At Work | Workplace Culture: Is it Race? Is It Personality?In this episode of What's The DEIL?, we dive into the intersection of election season and workplace dynamics, exploring how the once-taboo topic of politics is now making its way into our professional lives. We’ll discuss the impact of political discussions on workplace relationships and productivity, and why it's crucial to maintain a healthy work environment during these politically charged times. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-09-2426 minWhat’s the DEIL?Workplace Culture: Is it Race? Is It Personality?In this episode of *What's the DEIL?*, hosts Natalie Norfus and Shanté Gordon dive into the nuanced world of workplace conflict. How can you tell if tensions are driven by racial dynamics or just personality differences? By uncovering the root causes, organizations can create more inclusive and harmonious environments. Natalie and Shanté also introduce tools like Cloverleaf to help diagnose and resolve these issues, providing leaders with actionable insights for fostering healthier workplace relationships. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-09-1032 min
The Unstoppable Woman®Natalie Norfus on the Art of Pivoting, Setting Boundaries, & DEI in BusinessWhat if the key to leveling up in business (and your personal life) isn’t working harder to get everything done, but actually lies in creating more space for yourself? Wouldn’t that be amazing???I had such a good time speaking to this week’s guest on the podcast, Natalie Norfus, about just this that we didn’t want the interview to end! See, she has steadily made decision after decision to cultivate spaciousness. I call this putting a demand on the Universe… It’s when you DECIDE and say this is how I want my...
2024-08-2058 minWhat’s the DEIL?Cultural Appreciation: Part 2In Part 2 of our cultural exploration, we shift our focus to cultural appreciation and its positive impact on fostering understanding and connection. We explore initiatives like Young Arts and the significance of land acknowledgments in honoring Indigenous heritage. The conversation includes a critical examination of pop culture phenomena like Drake's engagement with Caribbean influences, prompting reflections on responsible cultural exchange and appreciation. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-07-3015 minWhat’s the DEIL?Cultural Appropriation: Part 1In Part 1 of our exploration of cultural appropriation, we unpack the complexities surrounding this issue. Through reaction posts and expert insights, we discuss instances of cultural appropriation related to black hairstyles, ornamentation, and costumes, especially during Halloween. Our guest, possibly a yoga teacher, offers perspectives on cultural appreciation versus appropriation and the importance of respectful cultural engagement. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-07-1615 minWhat’s the DEIL?Unconscious Bias Training: Challenging Assumptions and Fostering InclusionJoin us for an insightful discussion on unconscious bias training and its role in promoting diversity and inclusion. We delve into the impact of biases in various settings, from workplaces to everyday interactions, and explore effective strategies for addressing and mitigating unconscious biases. Our guests share practical tips and experiences to empower listeners in creating more equitable environments. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-07-0222 minWhat’s the DEIL?Metrics That Matter: Decoding Diversity and Inclusion Success Ft. Leah WadeIn this insightful episode of "What's The DEIL?" we dive deep into diversity and inclusion metrics with our DEI Data Analyst, Leah Wade. Join us as we decode the significance of key performance indicators and metrics in assessing the success of diversity and inclusion initiatives. Leah shares her expertise, providing valuable insights for organizations aiming to foster more inclusive and diverse environments. If you're keen on understanding the metrics that truly matter, this episode is a must-listen. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-06-1835 minWhat’s the DEIL?Intersectionality: Caribbean American History and LGBTQ+ Pride MonthIn this episode, we explore the concept of intersectionality within the context of Caribbean American History and LGBTQ+ Pride Month. We begin by defining intersectionality and its significance, drawing inspiration from Kimberlé Crenshaw's pioneering work. Enjoy the episode! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-06-0426 minWhat’s the DEIL?Unveiling Maternal Mortality Disparities with Judge Glenda HatchettIn this episode, we uncover the stark disparities in maternal mortality rates, examining the starting points for women to show up as their best selves at work. Joined by guest expert Judge Glenda Hatchett, we delve into the challenges faced by various communities, exploring systemic issues and personal narratives. From root causes to potential solutions, this conversation provides a deep understanding of the complexities surrounding maternal well-being. Join us for a thought-provoking dialogue that urges you to listen, learn, and advocate for change. Tune in now! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-05-2142 minWhat’s the DEIL?Folks Are Still Not Ok: Nurturing Mental HealthIn this episode of "What's The DEIL?", we delve into the crucial topic of mental health. Join us as we explore resources that contribute to a holistic approach, addressing the mind, body, and soul connection. Our hosts Natalie and Shanté share valuable insights, practical tips, and recommended practices to support mental well-being. Tune in to gain a deeper understanding of mental health resources that can make a positive impact on your life. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-05-0725 minWhat’s the DEIL?Unpacking the Drama Behind Anti-DEI LegislationJoin us for a lively discussion filled with insights as we explore the nuances of diversity, equity, and inclusion challenges and the recent legislations that have been passed. Get ready for our take on the serious side of workplace legislation. Whether you're passionate about DEI or just curious about the buzz, this episode is your backstage pass to the details. Tune in and stay entertained while staying informed! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-04-2326 minWhat’s the DEIL?DEI Discussions in 2024: Insights and Reactions from Social MediaJoin us in this hilarious yet enlightening episode as we dive headfirst into the world of DEI comments on social media. From eyebrow-raising moments to jaw-dropping revelations, we dissect the good, the bad, and the downright amusing. Get ready for a rollercoaster of reactions and, of course, some serious insights that will leave you both chuckling and pondering the state of diversity, equity, and inclusion in the digital age. It's time to LOL and learn! 🎙️🌐 #DEILaughs #SocialMediaUnfiltered #PodcastInsights Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-04-0934 minWhat’s the DEIL?Leading the Shift: Ft. Sarah Noll Wilson [Part 2]Welcome back to the second part of our series on behavior change in organizational leadership! Building upon our foundation from the first episode, we now shift our focus to actionable strategies for leaders aiming to spearhead lasting change within their organizations. Our esteemed guests share valuable insights, real-world examples, and practical tips to empower leaders in navigating and leading the transformative journey. Don't miss out on this continued conversation about shaping the future of organizational leadership through intentional behavior change. Drop your comments below and share your thoughts on intentional inclusionism. What steps are you taking to foster intentional...
2024-03-2624 minWhat’s the DEIL?Catalyzing Change: Unveiling the Dynamics of Behavior Change in Leadership ft. Sarah Noll Wilson [Part 1]In this insightful episode, Natalie and Shanté delve into the intricate world of behavior change within organizational leadership. Our expert guest, Sarah Noil Wilson unravels the psychological aspects, challenges, and effective strategies for fostering meaningful transformations in leadership behavior. Join us for a deep exploration into the catalysts that drive change and the pivotal role it plays in shaping successful leaders.Drop your comments below and share your thoughts on intentional inclusionism. What steps are you taking to foster intentional inclusion in your life?🔗 Follow The Norfus Firm on Social Media:Inst...
2024-03-1221 minWhat’s the DEIL?Intentional Inclusionist ft. Nika WhiteIn this thought-provoking episode of the "What's the DEIL?" podcast, hosts Natalie and Shanté dive deep into the world of intentional inclusion with Nika White. As an expert in diversity, equity, and inclusion, Nika brings her wealth of knowledge to the conversation, exploring the significance of intentional inclusionism and its impact on workplaces and communities.👥 Featured Guest:🌟 Nika White - The Intentional Inclusionist, Author, and DEI Strategist. 📣 Share your Thoughts:Drop your comments below and share your thoughts on intentional inclusionism. What steps are you taking to foster intentional inclusion in your life?
2024-02-2725 minWhat’s the DEIL?From clueless to culturally intelligent ft. Loren Rosario-MaldonadoNatalie and Shanté talk with cultural intelligence expert Loren Rosario-Maldonado about self-awareness, allyship, and humility. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-02-0619 minWhat’s the DEIL?The fallacy of meritocracyNatalie and Shanté discuss how and why meritocracy falls short. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-01-2321 min
Intentional ConversationsIntentional Conversations With Shanté S. GordonWelcome to Intentional Conversations, where we intersect diversity, equity, and inclusion with leadership and business.In this first episode of Season 3, our host, Dr. Nika White, has a compelling dialogue with Shanté S. Gordon, a seasoned head of DEI strategy and wellness facilitator at the Norfus Firm. Together, they explore the challenges and successes of individuals in DEI leadership roles, emphasizing the importance of personal well-being and advocating for equitable opportunities in the workplace.So, grab those headphones 🎧, press play, and let the conversation go!Be sure to subscribe to our chan...
2024-01-0954 minWhat’s the DEIL?Revisiting our favorite moments of “What’s the DEIL?”Natalie and Shanté reminisce about a year of amazing conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2024-01-0917 minWhat’s the DEIL?2023 in a nutshell: our learningsNatalie and Shanté reflect on what they learned in 2023. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-12-1920 min
The JabotThe Future of DEI with Natalie E. Norfus and Shanté S. GordonKathryn interviewed experts Natalie E. Norfus and Shanté S. Gordon discussing the legal industry, the application of AI in legal research via Lexis Plus's new platform, and promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI). Regarding burnout, Shanté advises identifying needs and seeking support. Natalie emphasizes realism in work allocation and setting work boundaries, particularly during the pandemic. Both underline the crucial need for resources and realistic expectations. Highlights The AI-powered tool, Judicial Brief Analysis, and its ability to offer targeted recommendations of relevant cases Natalie's motivation to attend law school, wanting to advocate for people and...
2023-12-1531 minWhat’s the DEIL?Why invest in diversity? ft. Tiffany GoodenNatalie and Shanté talk with Pronghorn’s Tiffany Gooden about investing in a diverse workforce. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-12-0528 minWhat’s the DEIL?(Not) safe for work ft. Ben DelkShanté and Natalie talk with human rights and inclusion expert Ben Delk about fostering psychological safety. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-11-2130 minWhat’s the DEIL?Resuscitating DEINatalie and Shanté go back to basics and explain exactly what DEI is and how it can benefit your business. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-11-0722 min
Conversations on ConversationsA Conversation on Human-Centered Leadership with Natalie E. NorfusJoin Sarah Noll Wilson and guest Natalie E. Norfus as they discuss shifts in work culture, the power of equity and inclusivity, and the human-centered approach that is essential to leading in the modern workplace.
About Our Guest
Natalie is a creative and proven problem solver with nearly 20 years of experience as a labor and employment attorney and HR/DEI practitioner. Natalie partners with employers on DEI and HR strategies, conducts complex internal investigations, and provides coaching and training to Boards of Directors and other senior leaders.
Natalie believes there is no “one-size fi...
2023-10-2539 minWhat’s the DEIL?Anti-woke is anti-businessNatalie and Shanté discuss the resistance to DEI and why “anti-woke” arguments just don’t add up. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-10-2421 minWhat’s the DEIL?Don’t diss the data ft. Dr. Victoria MattinglyNatalie and Shanté talk with Dr. Victoria Mattingly about why the quality of diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives lives and dies by data. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-10-1026 minWhat’s the DEIL?Summer recap: what a season full of travel taught us about DEIIn this special episode, Natalie and Shanté share silly and serious anecdotes from a summer full of travel, recap everything their trips taught them, and why it matters for DEI. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-09-2624 minWhat’s the DEIL?Boomers, Gen Z, and Avoiding 'Generation Wars' in the Workplace ft. Prof. Tiffany AtkinsNatalie and Shanté talk with University of Kentucky Professor Tiffany Atkins about her research on different generations' relationship with work and how to incoporate these different perspectives into a superpowered, age-diverse workplace. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-09-1231 minWhat’s the DEIL?Being an effective leader in a country you’re not from ft. Professor Alberto BenítezNatalie, Shanté, and Immigration Law Professor Alberto M. Benítez talk about the unique challenges of leading a workforce in a country that you aren't from, and how leaders can engage with DEI issues that are foreign to them. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-08-2926 min
Security Clearance Careers PodcastHR Nightmares and How to Avoid ThemWhat can tarnish your employer’s brand? Feedback on Glassdoor and disgruntled employees positing on social media. Both of these things can deter potential candidates before they even land on your careers page. But there are ways that HR teams can utilize employee feedback as a retention tool and a recruitment tactic for future candidates or referrals. With nearly 20 years of experience as a labor and employment attorney and HR/DEI practitioner, Natalie E. Norfus (Founder of The Norfus Firm and host of the “What’s the DEIL?” podcast) is the authority...
2023-08-2834 minWhat’s the DEIL?Supporting an immigrant workforce ft. Professor Alberto BenitezIn this sentimental conversation, Natalie and Shanté talk to Immigration Law Professor Alberto M. Benítez - a mentor of Natalie’s from her time at George Washington Law School - about attitudes toward immigrant employees and the support they need. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-08-1523 minWhat’s the DEIL?Folks are not OK!Natalie and Shanté revisit the issue of burnout, challenging some common ways of discussing about the overwork epidemic. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-08-0123 min
Money Making Conversations Master ClassNatalie E. Norfus - How Conservatives have decried diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts as "woke" in recent years.Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviews Natalie E. Norfus. She co-hosts the "What's the DEIL?" podcast. Natalie has nearly 20 years of experience as a labor and employment attorney. We discuss common issues in the workplace, remote work, and how Conservatives have decried diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts as "woke" in recent years. They argue it helps fuel racial tensions, hurts competitiveness and education, attacks Western values, and presents a false reading of American history.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
2023-07-2033 minThe Steve Harvey Morning ShowNatalie E. Norfus - How Conservatives have decried diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts as "woke" in recent years.Two-time Emmy and Three-time NAACP Image Award-winning television Executive Producer Rushion McDonald interviews Natalie E. Norfus. She co-hosts the "What's the DEIL?" podcast. Natalie has nearly 20 years of experience as a labor and employment attorney. We discuss common issues in the workplace, remote work, and how Conservatives have decried diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts as "woke" in recent years. They argue it helps fuel racial tensions, hurts competitiveness and education, attacks Western values, and presents a false reading of American history.Support the show: https://www.steveharveyfm.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy...
2023-07-2033 min
Money Making ConversationsNatalie E. Norfus - How Conservatives have decried diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts as "woke" in recent years.Rushion interviews Natalie E. Norfus. She co-hosts the "What's the DEIL?" podcast. Natalie has nearly 20 years of experience as a labor and employment attorney. We discuss common issues in the workplace, remote work, and how Conservatives have decried diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts as "woke" in recent years. They argue it helps fuel racial tensions, hurts competitiveness and education, attacks Western values, and presents a false reading of American history.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
2023-07-2040 minWhat’s the DEIL?Do DEI professionals take care of themselves? ft. Charlene BrownIn the final episode of our multi-part series with Charlene Brown, the Howlett Brown founder joins Natalie and Shanté to discuss how DEI professionals can best care for their well-being. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-07-1813 min
What’s the DEIL?Not everyone's meant to be doing international DEI work ft. Charlene BrownCharlene Brown joins Natalie and Shanté to discuss the traits of a successful international DEI practitioner in the third episode of our multi-part series on doing DEI across borders. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-07-0421 minWhat’s the DEIL?Making DEI useful in multinational companies ft. Charlene BrownCharlene Brown joins Natalie and Shanté in the second episode of our series on doing DEI across borders. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-06-2019 min
Live A Meaningful StoryEntrepreneurship and Controlling Your Destiny [feat. Jeremy Norfus]We love taking control of our lives! But what happens when life throws us curveballs? How do we continue to pursue what we love even when things happen outside of our control? Joining us is below fellow podcaster and entrepreneur Jeremy Norfus. As we discuss his story, we navigate the tension between pursuing what we want and doing what needs to be done.
Introductions (0:00)
Humble Beginnings (3:17)
How Trials Shape Who We Become (17:08)
Navigating the Entrepreneurial Life (30:19)
Living Meaningfully as an Entrepreneur (43:48)
Jeremy Norfus, a native of Boynton Beach, FL, is a successful entrepreneur and active sports enthusiast. He...
2023-06-0651 minWhat’s the DEIL?Is DEI an American issue? ft. Charlene BrownCharlene Brown - Co-Founder and Managing Director of the UK-based people intelligence company Howlett Brown - joins Shanté and Natalie for the first episode of a multi-part series on doing DEI across borders. In this conversation, they challenge the myth that Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion work is mainly applicable to the US. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-06-0613 minWhat’s the DEIL?Setting employee resource groups up for success ft. Desiree SantanaTalent experience expert Desiree Santana joins Natalie and Shanté on "What's the DEIL?" to discuss the benefits of employee resource groups, how to set them up for success, and ideas for promoting intersectional work. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-05-2328 minWhat’s the DEIL?Allyship (Part 5) ft. Rafael Langer-OsunaLawyer, environmentalist, and community leader Rafael Langer-Osuna joins Natalie and Shanté on "What's the DEIL?" to discuss their perspective on allyship in the fifth and final installment of our allyship series. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-05-0934 minWhat’s the DEIL?Allyship (Part 4) ft. Clive ChangYoung Arts President Clive Chang discusses allyship and the arts in the fourth part of our allyship series. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-04-2530 min
The Kathryn Zox ShowMeryl FrankKathryn interviews Strategist, Podcast Host Natalie E. Norfus.The Norfus Firm was formed by Natalie E. Norfus in 2019, born out of nearly two decades of Human Resources & Diversity, Equity and Inclusion experience.Today Norfus has an alliance of consultants that help bring organizational solutions to clients in various areas. She believes there is no “one-size fits all” approach to HR or DEI initiatives and uses a metrics-based model to help organizations develop policies, programs and goals that are customized to their needs. She is the co-host of the “What’s the DEIL?” podcast for organizational leaders – and those who support them – as th...
2023-04-1925 minThe Kathryn Zox ShowNatalie E. NorfusKathryn interviews Strategist, Podcast Host Natalie E. Norfus.The Norfus Firm was formed by Natalie E. Norfus in 2019, born out of nearly two decades of Human Resources & Diversity, Equity and Inclusion experience.Today Norfus has an alliance of consultants that help bring organizational solutions to clients in various areas. She believes there is no “one-size fits all” approach to HR or DEI initiatives and uses a metrics-based model to help organizations develop policies, programs and goals that are customized to their needs. She is the co-host of the “What’s the DEIL?” podcast for organizational leaders – and those who support them – as th...
2023-04-1927 minWhat’s the DEIL?Allyship (Part 3) ft. Bunmi EmenanjoAuthor, Ethics Counsel, and Founder of Atlas Book Club Bunmi Emenanjo joins Natalie and Shanté to discuss allyship, microaggressions, and agency. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-04-1125 minWhat’s the DEIL?Allyship (Part 2) ft. Sarah RathkeLaw firm partner Sarah Rathke joins Natalie and Shanté to discuss how allyship changes in relation to power, knowing when to be loud about your views, and more in this second episode of our allyship series. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-03-2819 minWhat’s the DEIL?Defining allyshipIn the first episode of our “Allyship” series, Shanté and Natalie discuss what allyship is, what it isn’t, and how it applies to the workplace. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-03-1420 minWhat’s the DEIL?Closing the Loop: Diverse Talent Pools + Labor ShortagesNatalie and Shanté discuss a contemporary conundrum: CEOs report high concern about attracting talent, but low concern for attracting diverse talent. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-02-2815 minWhat’s the DEIL?How to hold space for your employeesNatalie and Shanté discuss how to support employees after distressing news events. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-02-1414 minWhat’s the DEIL?Recession & RetentionNatalie and Shanté talk recession fears, retention anxieties, and building the resilience needed to weather it all. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-01-3119 minWhat’s the DEIL?Neurodiversity in the workplaceNatalie and Shanté talk with Strategist & Equity Advocate Diti Bhasin about neurodiversity's place in the DEI world. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-01-2417 minWhat’s the DEIL?Problematizing "professionalism"In the latest episode of “What’s the DEIL?”, Shanté and Natalie discuss the complicated concept of “professionalism”, and how it can be made more inclusive. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
2023-01-1711 minWhat’s the DEIL?How is DEI Connected to Mindfulness?Mindfulness isn’t just a personal wellness practice—it’s a leadership skill that can transform how you approach DEI. In this episode of What’s the Deal?, Shanté and Natalie explore how being present, self-aware, and intentional helps leaders navigate sensitive moments with empathy and clarity. Drawing on recent experiences at a DEI conference, they talk about the overwhelming scope of topics leaders face and why you don’t have to be an expert in every aspect to lead inclusively.From everyday workplace scenarios—like navigating comments about hair or pregnancy—to broader cultural awareness, they unpack the...
2023-01-1016 minWhat’s the DEIL?The Mid-Level Manager ProblemMiddle managers often sit at the heart of your company’s culture, but are they equipped to lead on DEI? In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie dig into why middle managers are the “linchpin” for turning DEI strategies into real, lasting change. Drawing from research and real-world experience, they explore how these leaders juggle managing up and down, navigate fear and uncertainty around DEI, and balance competing priorities in high-pressure environments. You’ll learn why even the best-written DEI plans can stall at this level and what organizations can do to operational...
2022-12-2011 minWhat’s the DEIL?Why Don't They Trust Me?In this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie tackle one of the most underestimated elements of leadership—trust.Through real-world data from senior leader assessments, they reveal an uncomfortable truth: even leaders often lack confidence in their ability to deliver on DEI commitments. And when words and actions don’t align, the ripple effect erodes morale, engagement, and long-term credibility.They unpack why “open door policies” rarely work without consistent relationship-building, why the gap between leadership perception and employee experience matters, and how trust is built through repeated, intentional actions, not one-tim...
2022-12-1317 minWhat’s the DEIL?Everybody Isn't Meant to Lead DEIIn this episode of What’s the DEIL?, Shanté and Natalie are fired up, and for good reason.It’s time to have a real conversation about what it actually takes to lead DEI in an organization. Spoiler alert: Good intentions and lived experience alone aren’t enough.We unpack the all-too-common trend of companies placing well-meaning but under-resourced employees, often women of color, into DEI roles with little support, no training, and sky-high expectations. This episode explores why DEI is a business function that deserves the same rigor, expertise, and strategic leadership as fina...
2022-12-0615 minWhat’s the DEIL?How We Dealt With Our BurnoutIn this special follow-up to our three-part burnout series, Shanté and Natalie get real about walking the talk. After helping clients navigate burnout, boundaries, and team capacity, our own team hit a wall.We didn’t just talk about burnout—we lived it.From packed client weeks and cross-country trainings to the emotional toll of complex people work, the exhaustion crept in. We started noticing the signs: work felt heavier, excitement waned, and even our most patient moments got shorter. So, we paused.In this reflective episode, we share how we kn...
2022-11-2908 minWhat’s the DEIL?Folks Are Tired! Part 3Burnout isn’t new, but how we respond to it in 2025 has to be.In this final installment of our 3-part burnout series, Shante` and Natalie tackle what happens after you’ve identified burnout in yourself and your team. Now that you’ve named it, how do you lead through it? Especially in a world that keeps demanding more and more productivity, more output, more performance, without addressing the human cost.With over three years of listening sessions, strategy work, and real-time feedback across industries, we’ve seen the patterns. And the truth is, your...
2022-11-2216 minWhat’s the DEIL?Folks Are Tired! Part 2In Part 2 of our burnout series, we’re digging into a truth many leaders quietly carry: you can’t support your team if you’re running on empty.Shante and Natalie return to explore what burnout really looks like from the top. This isn’t about hustle culture or generic self-care tips—it’s a candid, real-world conversation about the emotional weight leaders carry, and why acknowledging that weight is not a weakness, but a powerful first step toward sustainable leadership.We talk about the loneliness that often accompanies leadership roles, the masks leaders wear...
2022-11-1516 minWhat’s the DEIL?Folks Are Tired! Part 1Welcome to Part 1 of our powerful three-part series on burnout in the workplace and what it really means when people say they’re “quiet quitting.” Shanté and Natalie are getting cozy (literally—there’s a whole knitwear moment) to have an honest conversation about how burnout shows up, especially for historically excluded groups.This episode breaks down the three dimensions of burnout:🧠 Energetic depletion🧊 Disconnection from the work and people📉 Decline in performanceWe go beyond the buzzwords and into what burnout actually looks and feels like, from the creeping cy...
2022-11-0817 minWhat’s the DEIL?So, Now What?Natalie and Shanté return to tackle a question that’s been popping up across boardrooms, HR departments, and Slack messages: “Now what?”Post-2020, many organizations sprinted into action after George Floyd’s murder—launching DEI task forces, writing internal memos, and hosting webinars. But two and a half years later, leaders are fatigued, teams are skeptical, and progress feels stagnant. So what’s next?In this episode, Natalie and Shanté offer a candid and practical conversation about how companies can reset DEI expectations without giving up on the work.What You’ll Learn i...
2022-11-0116 minWhat’s the DEIL?DEI is DeadWelcome to the debut episode of What’s the DEIL, a podcast powered by The Norfus Firm that gets into the honest conversations about Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Leadership (DEIL). In this kickoff episode, co-hosts Natalie Norfus and Shanté Gordon ask a provocative question: Is DEI dead? Not because the work is over, but because it can’t continue as a siloed initiative. It’s time to make it the fabric of how we lead.Drawing from nearly two decades of combined experience in employment law, corporate leadership, wellness, and DEI strategy, Natalie and Shanté share:
2022-10-2521 minWhat’s the DEIL?What's the DEIL?“What’s the DEIL?” is a podcast for organizational leaders - and those who support them - as they make their way along their DEI journey. We explore how leaders can create space for authentic human connection through the lens of DEI. In this podcast, we discuss real and relevant work issues in a way that centers people and challenges leaders to go above and beyond in their efforts to improve workplace culture.We know you’re busy - so we focus on practical strategies and solid practices that improve employee engagement, retention and impact. Host...
2022-10-1200 min
Becoming: HER with Nikki Spoelstra23. Creating Awareness as Parents and Establishing Leadership in the Workplace with Natalie Norfus of The Norfus FirmSo many powerful points in this episode! Natalie Norfus is Managing Owner at The Norfus Firm. She is an HR & Inclusion Strategist, a mother, a trusted friend and a workplace problem solver. Natalie has over 15 years of experience counseling employers on diversity & HR strategies, compliance, and litigation. Natalie has worked with global employers in various industries including quick services restaurants, manufacturing, financial services, and healthcare, and she firmly believes that there is no “one size fits all” approach to HR and diversity strategies. Having come from a diverse upbringing and having worked with employers across the globe, Natalie draws on her vari...
2021-12-0737 min