Shows
unBetweenDo I Have To Like Church To Love Jesus?You've probably heard this verse quoted - "Do not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing." And if you've been a Christian for any amount of time, you've probably encountered something about church that you didn't like, or even deeply hurt or grieved you.
We're commanded to continue to participate in church, but how do we navigate the all too often messy and difficult people that are a part of it? And for that matter, what does "church" even mean?
In this episode, we try to get to clarity on...
2025-07-1148 minunBetweenBlessed Are God's Favorites, For Their Outrage Is JustifiedAs we wrap up our Beatitudes series, we wrestle with what it really means to be blessed when persecuted and reviled. This radical statement from Jesus stands in stark contrast to the comfort-driven values of the world — and especially of modern America.
In this episode, we unpack how the American church has often redefined “persecution,” and why that matters. Is discomfort the same as persecution? Are we missing something deeper that Jesus was calling us to? Join us as we explore what faithful and joyful endurance looks like in a world that doesn’t always understand the way of t...
2025-06-2759 minunBetween"What if I Stumble?" - Michael Tait"The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."
-Brennan Manning
On this episode, we wrestle with the recent news around Michael Tait, a voice that shaped the soundtrack of modern Christian faith for decades. What does his fall mean for the Christian music industry, for the Church, and for the rest of us who grew up singing along? We reflect on the dangers o...
2025-06-2132 minunBetweenJust The EssentialsIf you've been A Christian - or at least a church-goer - for any amount of time, you've likely heard some variation of the phrase "As long as we agree on the essentials..." But what happens when we can't agree on what the essentials are?
In this episode we explore our tribalistic religious tendencies, and ponder what it means to disagree in love and with humility.
2025-06-1343 minunBetween"He Restoreth My Soul"We live in a crazy world. Everyday demands and the "daily grind" can feel like a lot sometimes. Often we may steal a few moments to "zone out" and resort to mindless scrolling or doing nothing at all to get that well deserved rest... BUT, what if that really isn't rest at all?
On this episode we discuss the idea that while zoning out might offer temporary escape, it doesn't offer true rest or renewal. True rest - deep, soul-level restoration - comes from God alone and often looks more active and intentional that we mi...
2025-04-2336 minunBetweenBlessed Are The InstigatorsWhat is a peacemaker? Is it someone who ends conflict by triumphing over their enemies, or someone who gives away ground and compromises in order to avoid conflict? Or is it something else altogether?
In this episode, we wrestle with what peace actually is, and how God wants us to make it.
2025-01-2742 minunBetweenIf You Vote For ___ You're Not A ChristianThe kingdom of God is fundamentally opposed to the way that the kingdoms, empires, and governments of the world operate. Have we been living in Babylon, Egypt, and Rome (so to speak) for so long that we can no longer tell the difference?
2024-10-1743 minunBetweenBlessed Are Those Whose Hearts Are DividedWould you drink a glass of water with floaters in it? Not too appealing, right? That's the state of our hearts when we allow our allegiances to be divided between God and the things of the world - and the things of the world may not be what you're thinking.
In this continuation of our conversation about the Beatitudes, we talk about what it means to be pure in heart, and how it enables to see God for who He really is.
2024-07-1645 minunBetweenI Pledge Allegiance To... MyselfWhat are we truly living for? Is our desire to truly pursue the purpose God has for us, or is our goal to pursue our own success and desire to be remembered?
While we don't ever claim to have the answers, some things are hard to ignore. Comfort, Convenience, and Control have slowly become king and the Great Commission has become the Casualty. On this episode we discuss misplaced allegiances and the problems that presents with following Jesus.
2024-06-2941 minunBetweenA Few Steps FurtherBig epiphanies? Earth-shattering realizations? Spiritual mountaintops? Nah, not really, just a couple of dudes talking about some things they've learned, some things they're still struggling with, and the inescapable goodness of God.
2024-04-2951 minunBetweenThe Wind Blows Where It WishesMost of us have had moments where we feel God’s leading, but it often looks different for each of us. Some argue that they can hear God audibly while others maybe feel a gentle nudge from the spirit. Is it possible some are so in tune with God that they hear his leading easily while others need to be grabbed by the shoulders and shouted at?
On this episode we talk through many difficult questions. Does God still speak to us? Have certain gifts ceased? Just because God can do something, does it mean He will? Wh...
2024-03-1444 minunBetweenWhat Were We Thinking?Two dudes reflect on a year of life and podcasting. Did we learn anything? And if so, do we remember it?
2024-02-0342 minunBetweenBlessed Are The MercilessMercy. It shouldn't be so difficult. Especially when we have experienced the Mercy of God. But as we have explored in other conversations... it just isn't always that simple.
In this episode we continue discussing the Beatitudes. We specifically dive into Matthew 5:7, "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy." It's pretty clearly stated, yet we still fill that we are more likely to benefit from being merciless. Go figure.
2024-01-1243 minunBetweenBlessed Are The Fast Food ChristiansAccording to Jesus, those who hunger and thirst for righteousness are blessed. But have we allowed ourselves to be satisfied with less than the feast served on God's table?
In this episode, we talk about what it means to hunger and thirst for the things of God, what it most certainly does not mean, and how we can be satisfied and complete in the ways God intended.
2023-11-1650 minunBetweenSex, Drugs, and Christian MusicWe get it… sex sells and you can definitely say things a certain way to get people listening. BUT, does that mean it is the right, or even wise, thing to do?
In this episode we discuss a recent article we came across from Kevin McNeese of New Release Today. The article, titled “What The Bleep Is Happening To Christian Music?,” addresses many interesting changes in “Christian” music as of late. We discuss these and how it relates to art by people of faith in general. As always, these conversations carry some tension. While we can see both sides...
2023-10-2034 minunBetweenSelah For DummiesWhat does it mean to listen to the voice of God in a world full of noise? How can we know what we're supposed to be doing if we're not hearing the One who's leading us?
In this episode we talk about the fact that Sabbath is less about a day of the week and more about living life in rhythm with God.
2023-10-0429 minunBetweenBlessed Are The Powerful, For They Take What They WantWhen one hears "Blessed are the Meek," they likely have something come to mind. But what does it really mean? Have we made it something it's not?
In this episode we continue discussing the Casualty of The Beatitudes. This time we explore how our culture has decided that the powerful are more worthy of a blessing than the meek.
2023-08-2637 minunBetweenBlessed Are Those Who Suck It Up"Don't let it get to you." "Man, just let it roll right off you." "Stay positive!" All good advice, right? Problem is, we all reach a point at which we have to own our pain, or it will consume and define us.
In this episode, we talk honestly about our emotions, the language of lamentation, the closeness of God in our suffering, and what it means to mourn.
2023-08-1846 minunBetweenBlessed are the Rich in EgoThe Beatitudes are a pretty clear example of the people that God blesses and even what that blessing equates to. BUT... for whatever reason, it seems those same characteristics aren't appreciated or respected on Earth. So... what do we do with that? Unfortunately, we have (quietly of course) changed how these appear in our life to fit the worldly definition of success.
In the first episode of this series, we discuss the first of the Beatitudes that doesn't quite jive with the current way of thinking and why the Rich in Ego are surely more blessed than...
2023-08-0233 minunBetweenCollateral Damage: The Casualty of the BeatitudesSometimes we start talking and don't quite know where we will end up. Fortunately, this time it is well worth the journey. We start in Deuteronomy and somehow end up in Matthew, but... we hit along some interesting thoughts on the way.
This episode serves as an intro or on ramp to a new series around the Beatitudes, but it's not what you think. Give it a listen and stay tuned for what's next.
2023-07-2639 minunBetweenI’ve Deconverted! Please Like & Subscribe with Joshua S. PorterYou don't write a book called "Death To Deconstruction" without raising a few eyebrows. Author, pastor, and art punk purveyor Josh Porter is back to talk about the response to his book (both positive and negative) what surprised him about the process of releasing the book, the secret Showbread album that just dropped, and a lot more.
You can buy the book "Death To Deconstruction" here - > https://www.amazon.com/Death-Deconstruction-Reclaiming-Faithfulness-Rebellion/dp/0825447348/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1LQS8KMDTKT1F&keywords=josh+porter+death+to+deconstruction&qid=1689648443&sprefix=death+to+decon%2Caps%2C176&sr=8-1
2023-07-181h 32unBetweenSeed Tick, Wood Tick, Dog Tick, HereticSo...what is heresy, exactly? It's a term that gets thrown about quite freely, but if you were to ask 10 different people to define it, you might get 10 different answers. We try to get to some clarity on the issue, and hopefully stumble onto some wisdom along the way.
2023-07-0337 minunBetweenLights! Camera! Faction!There is so much much going on in this world right now. Christians have been put in the spotlight in many ways, though not always good. Unfortunately... instead of that being something to point people to truth, it has only further contributed to the idea that each person can have their own version of the truth.
In this episode we talk community, heretics, and the pursuit of happiness. You know, just normal lighthearted conversation.
2023-06-1743 minunBetweenBear With Me...We know you'll be shocked, but we're talking about the middle ground again.
In this conversation, we talk about our tendency (in America, anyway) to look towards political policies, leaders, and parties to solve the problem of the human condition. Trouble is, they can't - and we forget that to the detriment of our ability to be salt and light.
2023-05-2646 minunBetweenInspiration vs. InstructionWhat we need vs. what we want is almost always different. We often try to substitute a desire for inspiration with the necessary, yet uncomfortable, need for instruction. This is especially evident when it comes to the church.
In this episode we attempt to discuss these things in truth and with grace. We talk about spiritual growth, the seeker friendly trend, nominal Christianity, and many other things that are at play here.
2023-04-0145 minunBetweenWhose Side Are We On, Anyway?What is it that sticks out to people about us? What allegiances do we wear on our sleeves that we're not aware of?
In this episode, we try to parse being purposeful vs. being partisan, and ponder (that's a lot of p's) what it would take to be in tune with God and what He wants from us.
2023-03-2532 minunBetweenRotten FencesThings aren't always what they seem. We live in a world where many parse out the different part of their lives depending on how they want to be seen. And in some cases, we just do things because it seems like that is how they should be done. Not confusing at all right?
We know how we should live in view of God's mercy and grace. That said, we often look more like whitewashed tombs than temples of the living God. In this episode we talk ethics, compassion, and loving those around us.
2023-03-1030 minunBetweenHere’s The Thing...Welcome to Season 3 of unBetween!
You've probably heard that you should put God first in your life. But what if He doesn't want to be first? What if He wants to be more than that?
We talk about priorities, community, perspective, and a lot more in this first episode of 2023.
2023-02-2448 minunBetweenGiving It The SenseAs we wrap up 2022, we reflect on the past year of life, podcasting, and uncertainty. It has been a busy year and many things have happened. Our discussion covers things like our failed attempts to plan out our lives, the importance of community, seeking clarity over comfort, and many other things.
We are excited about what is to come for the unBetween podcast over the next year as we seek to have even more conversations around loving God and people well in this tension we occupy.
2023-01-0338 minunBetweenA Spirit Reborn with Jason TrubyJason Truby is back to continue our conversation about his experiences as a musician and a Christian, but a lot of our time is spent reflecting on the nature of our lives as people of faith, and how, at the end of the day, the only question that really matters is "Do you know Him?"
Jason Truby has worn a lot of musical hats over the years - from metal, to hard rock, to acoustic, to fingerstyle, and a few other stops along the way. He was a founding member of Living Sacrifice and lead g...
2022-12-3059 minunBetweenDeath to Deconstruction with Joshua S. Porter (Pt.2)The second part of our conversations with our favorite art punk prophet. Josh Porter has a new book out, and he was gracious enough to return to the mic to talk with us about it!
Death to Deconstruction - Faithfulness As An Act of Rebellion chronicles Josh's pilgrimage through his own deconstruction of his faith and religion, and explains the reasons he chose to remain a Christian - and why you should, too.
You can order the new book, read the synopsis, and check out the other projects that Josh has going on at joshuasporter...
2022-12-091h 03unBetweenDeath to Deconstruction with Joshua S. Porter (Pt. 1)Our favorite art punk prophet Josh Porter has a new book out, and he was gracious enough to return to the mic to talk with us about it!
Death to Deconstruction - Faithfulness As An Act of Rebellion chronicles Josh's pilgrimage through his own deconstruction of his faith and religion, and explains the reasons he chose to remain a Christian - and why you should, too.
You can order the new book, read the synopsis, and check out the other projects that Josh has going on at joshuasporter.com
2022-11-2847 minunBetweenMetaphors In Motion with Jason TrubyJason Truby has worn a lot of musical hats over the years - from metal, to hard rock, to acoustic, to fingerstyle, and a few other stops along the way. He was a founding member of Living Sacrifice and lead guitarist for P.O.D., but the uniting factor in all of his endeavors is the desire to create honest art that reflects the greatness of God, the original Artist.
Jason is down-to-earth, personable, and humble, but also deeply reflective and insightful, so we were smiling laughing, and deeply moved during this conversation - often all at...
2022-11-101h 05unBetweenLevel Up (It’s Not What You Think)You perhaps have heard the phrase "level up" thrown around as some kind of pseudo-inspirational sound bite intended to give you an excuse to pursue goals that, at the end of the day, are more about you and what you want than what good you can do for other people.
But there are times in our lives when we're called to leave our comfortable ruts, shift up a gear, and take on a new level of responsibility and calling. Our own desires, comfort, and success don't necessarily factor - but a classic Nintendo game just might!
2022-10-1550 minunBetweenComfort, Convenience, or ConvictionIn a world where there are so many things we are told we need or should do, what are we really pursuing?
In this episode we talk through the pursuit of comfort and convenience over the pursuit of God and the misconception that as followers of Christ, life should be smooth and free of trouble.
2022-09-0937 minunBetweenThese Are Your Gods"Celebrate yourself!" is a refrain that can seemingly be heard shouted from every cultural street corner these days, regardless of whether you're on standing the left or the right side of the tracks.
In this episode, we talk about the deep-seated pull to selfishness both inside the church and outside, and how Christ calls us to live a different way.
2022-07-2343 minunBetweenDisney, Hillsong, & VHS TapesSometimes art is something we experience on a cultural level. There are media monoliths out there creating content that shapes our society, and not always for the better. What should a believer's response be when art enters our circles of influence - especially when it's coming from a source that's supposedly "safe"?
We wade through the ins and outs of what's put Disney and Hillsong in the news lately, and ponder whether we're as tuned in as we should be to what's happening in our own homes.
2022-05-0257 minunBetweenThe Holiness of Imagination with Nao GloverNao Glover is a musician, writer, communicator, and the editor of HM Magazine, which explores all the avenues of heavy music, and that made by people of faith in particular.
We talk about her experiences in music, explore her master's thesis about the value of implicit communication in art, and an excellent blog she wrote about unhealthy expectations found in modern worship culture.
If you'd like to reach out to her, or interact with more of her work and perspective, click one of the links below.
http://www.hmmagazine.com
2022-04-111h 18unBetweenArt Is CheapWhat is art for? And what good is it when it becomes too diluted to accomplish its purpose? We talk honest art, sacred rhythms, self-reflection, and leaving space for selah.
2022-04-0447 minunBetweenSpirit and Bone with Andy ZipfAndy Zipf is a singer/songwriter with a poet's mind and prophet's heart that has been writing "rock n' roll hymns" for many years now. He has a new album coming out March 11 called How To Make A Paper Airplane, which was three years in the making. This beautiful collection of songs, recorded "in stolen moments with borrowed microphones" emerged from his family's move from D.C. to Florida, his experiences as a first-time father, the passing of his own father, and trying to make sense of walking the line between solo artist and church musical director.
2022-03-071h 00unBetweenEverything Fades If It’s Not Sustained By YouAfter an unintentional hiatus, we're back talking about the things in our lives that are sustainable, nonnegotiable, or prunable. What should we actually spend our time doing as followers of Jesus, and how do we make sense of difficulty and a lack of fulfillment?
2022-02-0638 minunBetweenNative TonguesWe may not remember it, but there was a time when each of us was unable to speak - we had thoughts and emotions and even experiences, but no way to give voice to them or articulate them to someone else.
In this episode, we discuss some of our individual experiences of key moments when art and faith met and came alive, and how that combination can give Christians the language of the human experience.
2021-09-2858 minunBetweenPunk Rock and the Spiritual Discipline of Art Appreciation with Joshua S. PorterJoshua S. Porter is a musician, songwriter, and author, who is best known as the lead vocalist and lyricist for nigh-impossible to classify art punk juggernaut Showbread. He's also dabbled in a lot of other endeavors musical and otherwise like The Bell Jar, Annihilationism, The Word Virus, Church of Agony, You Hate Movies, and more.
As the primary driving force behind so many creative endeavors, Josh had a lot to say about art - his own and that created by other folks, both inside and outside the Church. We talk weird Bible passages, Christians as holy art...
2021-09-131h 29unBetweenThe Art In Me (Season 2 Launch)In this new chapter of the unBetween Podcast, we're exploring art - specifically, art made by people of Christian faith, and all of the ideas, issues, pitfalls, and mountaintops that go with it.
Throughout Season 2, we'll be talking to lots of artists of all different types about how their faith informs the art that they make, and how they navigate the difficult road between the "church" market on one side and the "mainstream" market on the other.
Be sure to keep an eye out for the next episode - we'll be talking to Josh Porter...
2021-08-2353 minunBetweenDumb ChristiansIt's an old cliche - "A mind is a terrible thing to waste." But it's especially true for followers of Jesus. Because sometimes our ignorance, apathy, lack of mindfulness, and general disinterest in loving God with our minds is just...plain...dumb. It's not all bad news, though!
Join us as we talk through the ways in which Christians sometimes act dumb, and what we as believers might be be able to do about it.
2021-04-2238 minunBetweenWith All Your MindA lot of the talk revolving around loving God has to do with our actions and our emotions, and making sure that they're properly aligned with what He wants from us. But what about our thoughts? And more specifically, what about the mind the creates, stores, and catalogues them?
In this episode, we explore what the Scriptures have to say about loving God with our minds, and why allowing ourselves to be transformed as our minds are renewed by the Spirit is integral to the lives of followers of Jesus.
2021-02-1049 minunBetweenSo This Is The New YearLots of us make New Year's resolutions, and that's often not a bad thing. But if we're not careful, our focus going into a new year becomes more about us and what we want than what God wants to do in our lives. We're such buzzkills, we know. We try to land in a balanced spot by the end of the conversation but you'll have to be the judge of whether or not it worked!
2021-01-0254 minunBetweenShepherds & Stages Pt. IIWe continue the conversation we started last week about leadership, but this time we turn our attention to what it means to be a follower. What kinds of expectations do we have for our leaders? Are they there to serve us, or the other way around? Or both? How responsible are we (if at all) for their mistakes?
We land on the thought that maybe we should be more worried about the planks in our own eyes.
2020-12-1236 minunBetweenShepherds & Stages Pt. ISome prominent Christians have been in the headlines again, and not necessarily because of their witness. But what does that even mean for people of faith trying to live in the spotlight? They may not have sought a platform, but does that mean they shouldn't have one? And what happens when they fall off of it?
As always, we try to navigate these issues with grace and truth, but as you'll hear, it gets complicated.
2020-12-0648 minunBetweenResidents of EarthWe already see as through a clouded glass, but nothing seems more murky than politics in our current cultural moment.
In a continuation of the conversation we started in our Citizens of Heaven episode, we discuss putting our trust in God rather than people, the Spirit of God rather than our own thoughts and emotions, and the wisdom of God rather than our own knowledge and perspectives.
2020-11-171h 06unBetweenDisengageSometimes it seems like the people around us don't want the same level of depth and faith that we feel called to - and it's challenging to truly participate in biblical community when it feels like you're the only one looking for it.
In the final episode of our 3-part series Entrench, Deconstruct, and Disengage, we talk about struggling with the desire to cut ties with faith, religion, and the cultural monolith that is Christianity in America.
2020-10-2758 minunBetweenDeconstructIn the second episode of our three-part conversation Entrench, Deconstruct, or Disengage, we talk about what happens when faith breaks down and deteriorates - both in terms of the core tenets of Christian belief, and also the religious structures of Christianity in which that faith is lived out. How do you make sense of the world when your "spiritual house" gets torn down?
2020-09-301h 03unBetweenEntrenchThe first in a three-part conversation about what happens when people of faith Entrench, Deconstruct, or Disengage, we talk about our experiences with people building spiritual or religious walls around themselves and what happens when the "enemies" outside find their way into the sanctuary.
2020-09-1354 minunBetweenCitizens of HeavenAs followers of Jesus, our primary allegiance is to our King. Problem is, there are a lot of other kingdoms - national, political, theological, philosophical, personal - that vie for our time, attention, resources, hearts, minds, faithfulness, and obedience.
We talk about the fact that "citizens of heaven" doesn't really mean what we think it means, and what it looks like to truly follow Christ in the midst of these tensions.
2020-08-2457 minunBetweenTension and Becoming with Jay NewmanJay Newman, co-host of the Catacomb Podcast and manager of Sean Michel, joins us for a conversation about living in tension as a person of faith and the slow process of becoming who we were meant to be.
The Catacomb Podcast seeks to turn cynicism into solutions, and proudly proclaims that "The middle ground is the underground". catacombpodcast.com
Sean Michel is a musical prophet. seanmichelmusic.com
2020-08-111h 10unBetweenIntro EpisodeWe talk about our motivations for wanting to have these kinds of conversations - the need for nuance and listening, the importance of working through uncomfortable ideas, and the call to love people as God does - especially when when disagree with them.
2020-08-0248 min